The debate about 12
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@nzzp said in The debate about 12:
@pakman said in The debate about 12:
@ACT-Crusader said in The debate about 12:
@DMX said in The debate about 12:
When Nonu was first moved to 12 for ABs in 2006 there was a lot of head scratching when Henry and co said they thought it was his best position. If I remember right he was chosen ahead of Mauger (maybe McAllister too?). I don't remember if he had already started playing there with the Canes?
He only played one test at 2nd 5 in 06. The others were at centre and off the bench stints at centre and on the wing. In 2006 there was a lot of rotation.
Then in 07 he only had a couple of brief stints off the bench at centre given Mauger and Lucky were the preferred 2nd 5s and Snakey, Mils and Ice the preferred centres.
Fast forward to after the RWC and Nonu and Snakey assume first choice midfield for the mid-season tests and then into the 3Ns. And as they say the rest is history.
In 2006 EOYT Snakey was part of demolition in first French test outside Lucky. Three different combinations. Nonu 13 vs England outside Mauger and 12 in 2nd French test inside Mils.
If only?
Don't forget the 19th test match between NZ and Ireland, 10 June 2006 at Hamilton. Nonu was at centre and from my memory had a massive, massive defensive miss on BOD that resulted in a try. People were saying he shouldn't ever play for the ABs again it was that bad.
we won 34-26, but it was tighter than we'd like (and some bad blood after Lions '05)
Edit:
Carter-Nonu-BOD would be my dream inside backs.
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@sparky said in The debate about 12:
@pakman Would take Carter-Nonu-Snake ahead of that combo every day of the year.
I can only assume this is based on backing established combinations, because as much as I loved Conrad, he simply wasn't a patch on BOD. It's just ludicrous to suggest otherwise, no matter how much you might dislike him.
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@voodoo said in The debate about 12:
@sparky said in The debate about 12:
@pakman Would take Carter-Nonu-Snake ahead of that combo every day of the year.
I can only assume this is based on backing established combinations, because as much as I loved Conrad, he simply wasn't a patch on BOD. It's just ludicrous to suggest otherwise, no matter how much you might dislike him.
TBH can't remember BOD outplaying Smith once, but maybe thats just me.
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@sparky said in The debate about 12:
@pakman Would take Carter-Nonu-Snake ahead of that combo every day of the year.
I wouldn’t pick one Irish player in a combined NZ-Ireland team...
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@ACT-Crusader thanks Sean.
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@mofitzy_ said in The debate about 12:
Different types of players. Conrad complimented Nonu perfectly, as an individual you might say BOD but the proof is the the pudding for the Nonu/Smith combination.
this 100%.
BOD > Smith, but Nonu+Smith>Daylight>anyone else
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@voodoo said in The debate about 12:
@sparky said in The debate about 12:
@pakman Would take Carter-Nonu-Snake ahead of that combo every day of the year.
I can only assume this is based on backing established combinations, because as much as I loved Conrad, he simply wasn't a patch on BOD. It's just ludicrous to suggest otherwise, no matter how much you might dislike him.
I always liked the bald Ozzie guy who played 13. Also that South African, the tall big French guy and the tall skinny English fella.
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@nzzp said in The debate about 12:
@mofitzy_ said in The debate about 12:
Different types of players. Conrad complimented Nonu perfectly, as an individual you might say BOD but the proof is the the pudding for the Nonu/Smith combination.
this 100%.
BOD > Smith, but Nonu+Smith>Daylight>anyone else
Broadly agree, but they always found De Villiers and Fourie a handful.
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@pakman said in The debate about 12:
Broadly agree, but they always found De Villiers and Fourie a handful.
Hell yes - but for how long? Longevity is one of those things that goes to a 'great'. Rupeni was incredible, but short career. Shane Bond was off the charts good, but injured and short career. BOD had the longevity and the talent, and with a consistent midfield partner could have formed a combo at that level
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@Snowy said in The debate about 12:
It is hypothetical - but would BOD have been even better playing outside Carter and Nonu? Along with the rest of an AB team of course. He probably would have.
That’s a good point. In the AB team in the years running up to the 2015 RWC you had world class players surrounded by more world class players. That has to bring the overall standard up. BOD for instance was often the star in a pretty dark surrounding sky.
Edit: His play in the 2001 Lions when he was surrounded by some other world class players, some of his work was sublime.
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@Catogrande said in The debate about 12:
@Snowy said in The debate about 12:
It is hypothetical - but would BOD have been even better playing outside Carter and Nonu? Along with the rest of an AB team of course. He probably would have.
That’s a good point. In the AB team in the years running up to the 2015 RWC you had world class players surrounded by more world class players. That has to bring the overall standard up. BOD for instance was often the star in a pretty dark surrounding sky.
Edit: His play in the 2001 Lions when he was surrounded by some other world class players, some of his work was sublime.
And pretty handy outside Jamie Roberts in 2009 Lions.
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Carter-Horan-Bunce for me.
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@mariner4life up until Nonu's last 2 seasons, Horan was always the clear best 12 to me, but those last 2 seasons of Nonu pushed him to at least alongside Horan, possibly even past.
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@taniwharugby said in The debate about 12:
@mariner4life up until Nonu's last 2 seasons, Horan was always the clear best 12 to me, but those last 2 seasons of Nonu pushed him to at least alongside Horan, possibly even past.
yep, agree. Nonu's peak was at least as good. No doubt. But Horan was pretty consistently excellent for a long time. So he stays in.
But as you say, it went from "no contest" to "bees dick".
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@Victor-Meldrew said in The debate about 12:
No problems we'll Tualigi.
Excellent, I now have a new verb to add to my rugby vocab.
Edit: but does that mean to act like a frenzied bull or jump off unsuitably fast objects in inappropriate places? -
@nostrildamus said in The debate about 12:
@Victor-Meldrew said in The debate about 12:
No problems we'll Tualigi.
Excellent, I now have a new verb to add to my rugby vocab.
Edit: but does that mean to act like a frenzied bull or jump off unsuitably fast objects in inappropriate places?it means "play 1 in every 4 games. at best"
aka tampon
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@nzzp said in The debate about 12:
@pakman said in The debate about 12:
Broadly agree, but they always found De Villiers and Fourie a handful.
Hell yes - but for how long? Longevity is one of those things that goes to a 'great'. Rupeni was incredible, but short career. Shane Bond was off the charts good, but injured and short career. BOD had the longevity and the talent, and with a consistent midfield partner could have formed a combo at that level
Gordon D’arcys test career forgotten just like that
History of rugby union matches between Ireland and New Zealand - Wikipedia
