Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11
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@PecoTrain said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Billy-Tell said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Mounga had a really poor game I thought given the weather. I also think goodhue should be 13 or not in the team. Best memory will be Clarke’s cameo. O for awesome. You’d have to think BB to 10 and JB to 15 for the next game.
On Mo'unga's bad/quiet game, only NTA has mentioned the late hits on him. I counted three times where RM was down in back play (Wilson's late hit, being clattered in the lead up to Reiko's non-try and then twice in the second half) after late hits in addition to the big hit early (11 mins?) from Toomua.
As for centres, haven't almost all of the AB's centre choices in recent years been forced by injuries? ALB/Laumape/SBW/Crotty all had injuries at various points during 2018 and 2019 while Reiko has only begun his move to centre in 2020. Goodhue has ended up in 12/13 by being available.
Well DC, AC and BB - indeed all test 10s - all had to deal with that at various stages of their time in the 10 jersey. If RM isn’t tough enough to shake off a couple of marginally late hits then perhaps he doesn’t have the minerals to be a test match 10
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@chimoaus said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Bovidae Was this around the time RM was standing around the ruck looking like a virgin in an orgy?
He was standing in the pocket at least twice and then joined the ruck because I think TJP got stuck in a ruck.
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@ACT-Crusader You would have to question his standing in the team if they just ignored him, I highly doubt DC would have been ignored.
Yep TJ needed help. I remember yelling at the TV at this point saying what the fuck is RM doing at the ruck.
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@chimoaus said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@ACT-Crusader You would have to question his standing in the team if they just ignored him, I highly doubt DC would have been ignored.
I think you’re reading way to much into it especially that the best opportunity was the one where Sotutu was passing out but decided to go to Jordie. That didn’t make sense to me.
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@ACT-Crusader That ruck above was the perfect spot for a dg, but RM literally walked up to the ruck and does nothing.
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@chimoaus have you got the stills for before and after?
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@ACT-Crusader He basically walks up to the ruck, puts his hand on top of the wallaby then casually walks away. The next drive the ruck is directly under the posts. Its at this stage he should be demanding the ball to throw it over. WTF is he even doing at the ruck. The rest of the backline are out waiting.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@chimoaus have you got the stills for before and after?
Honestly stop defending him - if we don't have a halfback there to pass the ball back for the dropkick, it's not the job of the guy who's supposed to take the dropkick to go and play half back. You see the issue here, right?
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@chimoaus said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@ACT-Crusader He basically walks up to the ruck, puts his hand on top of the wallaby then casually walks away. The next drive the ruck is directly under the posts. Its at this stage he should be demanding the ball to throw it over. WTF is he even doing at the ruck. The rest of the backline are out waiting.
That last shot of the 4 (bottom right) is quite telling - look at the space behind the ruck, right in front of the posts, basically the perfect spot for him to casually knock it over.
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@junior said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@ACT-Crusader He basically walks up to the ruck, puts his hand on top of the wallaby then casually walks away. The next drive the ruck is directly under the posts. Its at this stage he should be demanding the ball to throw it over. WTF is he even doing at the ruck. The rest of the backline are out waiting.
That last shot of the 4 (bottom right) is quite telling - look at the space behind the ruck, right in front of the posts, basically the perfect spot for him to casually knock it over.
Like our failure in 2007 it has to be a failure of the onfield leadership group, its not up to Richie to call his own number
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@junior no need to defend him. Here’s how I saw it, 87th minute in the pocket. 87:50 in the pocket
So at the 88th minute they decided to keep it in the forwards and Richie comes in.
But by 88:20 he’s back in position for the drop goal. But they go wide.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
So at the 88th minute they decided to keep it in the forwards and Richie comes in.
Does that not sound strange when you read that? The 10 joining the forwards at the ruck when the 9 is clearly there?
I guess it was possible that the call had been made to keep it in the forwards and he knew it was never coming to him. But still seems odd to me for the 10 to walk in like that instead of calling the shots behind the ruck. -
@Rapido said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@ARHS said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
I thought the crowd reaction at the fulltime whistle was absolutely disgraceful. Ashamed to be a kiwi from that. Both teams gave it all they had to go for a win - for 9 minutes beyond in a tight game. Fantastic effort players and officials.
Might be an unpopular thing to say here, but that kind of crowd behaviour is not unexpected from NZ these days. Anecdotally have heard it from many nationalities as I get around the club scene here in Sydney.
Don't know if it is a generational thing, but the level of boorishness in rugby crowds is generally increasing. Throw in the ABs success and it seems like some fans feel they've been given licence to think their nation owns the game.
I don't disagree with any of that but must say that a fair deal of the booing right at the end would have been reactionary. The excitement and entertainment they paid for was cut off by a decision to take a draw. I would have been disappointed and let out a groan as well.
I was there and I groaned when we knocked it on forcing a static defensive ruck on own line. That was when I knew the game was over and it was a draw. Good 30 seconds to to compose yourself before the actual final whistle. Chance to then acknowledge them emptying the tank for 8 extra minutes.
There is little rugby-intelligence in an NZ crowd anymore, IMO.
Barely anyone cheers or claps the little moments that creates or switches momentum or relieves danger; The bundle into touch, the perfect exit, the finger tip kick catch in swirling wind, a counter maul or hold up in the tackle, the driving maul. I'd say turnovers are the only thing acknowledged but only if it is a penalty turnover. An in-game turnover is probably too subtle for the morons to notice. Some of the crowd might also notice a lineout against the throw as it is obvious.
Just sit there and wait for a try or for the music. There to be entertained not to participate. But in saying that 75% of people didn't boo, because 75% make no noise anyway ....
Doesn't help that your're so far from the action and the DJ kills it anyway as soon as a rare moment of crowd participation happens, seems a bit futile, maybe the other NZ grounds are better.
I've said this many times before, but music at live sporting events is an absolute blight on the game whether it's cricket or rugby. I hate it with every ounce of my being.
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@Crucial said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
I still don't get how, after all these years and experience, the message hasn't got through to players about kicking when it is windy in the Caketin.
The best goalkickers there don't 'allow' for anything. Best option is to aim down the middle and let the swirl take it both ways. Hodge did that and was inches away from an incredible score.
With out of hand kicking keep it flat Jordie! WTF is with kicking high for distance against a swirling headwind!I remember when Wilkinson nailed everything at the Cake Tin to get England a famous victory. When asked about it he said he just kicked them straight and saw the ball get blown off course and then back on course over the posts.
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@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
I still don't get how, after all these years and experience, the message hasn't got through to players about kicking when it is windy in the Caketin.
The best goalkickers there don't 'allow' for anything. Best option is to aim down the middle and let the swirl take it both ways. Hodge did that and was inches away from an incredible score.
With out of hand kicking keep it flat Jordie! WTF is with kicking high for distance against a swirling headwind!I remember when Wilkinson nailed everything at the Cake Tin to get England a famous victory. When asked about it he said he just kicked them straight and saw the ball get blown off course and then back on course over the posts.
Not a memorable night for Spencer. Did he miss 4 or 5 that night?
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@chimoaus said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@canefan I agree re leadership but you don't think the AB's 10 should have the confidence and ability to make that play himself? How do any drop kicks take place, does the captain always make the call prior?
He's not Dan Carter, he isn't even BB. Those two have the chutzpah to take control of the cutter and overrule what ever plan was in place
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@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Rapido said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@ARHS said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
I thought the crowd reaction at the fulltime whistle was absolutely disgraceful. Ashamed to be a kiwi from that. Both teams gave it all they had to go for a win - for 9 minutes beyond in a tight game. Fantastic effort players and officials.
Might be an unpopular thing to say here, but that kind of crowd behaviour is not unexpected from NZ these days. Anecdotally have heard it from many nationalities as I get around the club scene here in Sydney.
Don't know if it is a generational thing, but the level of boorishness in rugby crowds is generally increasing. Throw in the ABs success and it seems like some fans feel they've been given licence to think their nation owns the game.
I don't disagree with any of that but must say that a fair deal of the booing right at the end would have been reactionary. The excitement and entertainment they paid for was cut off by a decision to take a draw. I would have been disappointed and let out a groan as well.
I was there and I groaned when we knocked it on forcing a static defensive ruck on own line. That was when I knew the game was over and it was a draw. Good 30 seconds to to compose yourself before the actual final whistle. Chance to then acknowledge them emptying the tank for 8 extra minutes.
There is little rugby-intelligence in an NZ crowd anymore, IMO.
Barely anyone cheers or claps the little moments that creates or switches momentum or relieves danger; The bundle into touch, the perfect exit, the finger tip kick catch in swirling wind, a counter maul or hold up in the tackle, the driving maul. I'd say turnovers are the only thing acknowledged but only if it is a penalty turnover. An in-game turnover is probably too subtle for the morons to notice. Some of the crowd might also notice a lineout against the throw as it is obvious.
Just sit there and wait for a try or for the music. There to be entertained not to participate. But in saying that 75% of people didn't boo, because 75% make no noise anyway ....
Doesn't help that your're so far from the action and the DJ kills it anyway as soon as a rare moment of crowd participation happens, seems a bit futile, maybe the other NZ grounds are better.
I've said this many times before, but music at live sporting events is an absolute blight on the game whether it's cricket or rugby. I hate it with every ounce of my being.
It's now at the point it's been an entire generation since people have experienced a proper rugby crowd. People dont know what to do anymore even if the DJ were to shut his fucking cakehole.
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Interesting game, interesting comments.
Smith was good.
Mo'unga was mediocre, but he's a good player and will come right.
Goodhue played fine albeit not in his best position: defended very well, well positioned and nice hands to link for the try.
Ioane was poor. Very good as always once he caught the ball and ran with it, but unfortunately bad everything else. The bombed grounding was a shocker, and as others have mentioned, no surprise. He didn't pass when he should have to blow an overlap, and also bombed another try with the foot on the line but that didn't get called somehow. And he was the guy who squeezed in on defence instead of trusting the insides to give the Aussies their try. Of those 4 bad mistakes, 2 are wingers jobs, so no excuse. He's a good player, but that was not a game to remember.
Bridge was okay only. Not as good in the air as we'd like, good pass for the try, otherwise not involved enough which is supposed to be one of his strengths.
Jordie was okay out of position, not his fault he was picked there. That 22 reception was a shocker though.
MacKenzie was pretty good actually. More like the North vs South than the Chiefs version.Moody was good.
Taylor was okay.
Tungafasi was okay, but I had hoped for more.
Tuipolotou was okay, but I had hoped for more.
Whitelock was good-ish, which seems to be about where he sits in his dotage. Lots of work in the ruck and tackle and solid lineouts.
Frizzell was fine, lots of tackling, and linked well for the try in the corner. Seems a bit weird to be copping flak from some of the same guys lauding Cane when Frizz had the more tackles in the first half.
Cane was mighty. Not sure he's a captain, but the performance did say 'follow me'.
Savea was poor I thought. A few good moments, but just nowhere near enough of them.Coaching wise, well, fucking hopeless. Selecting 3 debutants on the bench alongside Perenara means Foster either was arrogant enough to think it would be in the bag by 60 minutes, or is just stupid and has chucked one of the positives of Hansen's regime in blooding new players one at a time surrounded by experience and established combinations.
Just pick Sotutu. He's good enough, so he's old enough. Savea was playing well enough to demand selection in the WC year, but I don't think he's done that this year, and there's no dropping Cane barring injury.
Barrett and Bridge, no no no. Jordie is a fullback. Bridge is fine, but if he's selected the other wing should be a bruiser like Clarke for a shit day in Wellington.
For those saying drop Goodhue, what the hell? He was fine in this game, he was our best in the WC loss, and let's not forget that ALB has had a shit super season at 12. Certainly his best position is centre, but dropping him would be crazy.
You'd think we would have had a plan for White after what he did to us last time, but apparently not.
Passive defensive line. We're sticking to that shit tactic eh. Nice.
Bugger all possession, another time-honoured tactic. Gotta love that continuity.The reffing, as others have said, plenty let go both ways. Either side could point at missed decisions in the last few minutes that could have changed the result, but who cares really.
Well done to Dave Rennie, didn't really expect anything less given his history of making teams greater than the sum of the parts. If Faingaa hadn't played so badly I think the Aussies would have got the win they deserved. Also worth noting that they showed a bit of belief - Aussie sides of the recent past might well have crumbled after playing all the rugby for scant reward and then conceding points against the run of play.
