AB "What could have been" XV
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@dogmeat said in AB "What could have been" XV:
@shark I agree Mains was a poor selector but its BS to say he didn't realise Zinny's value. Brooke played in all the tests against Oz in 92 and against SA and was an ever present under Mains. Pene did start in a Lions Test in 93 and against England that year (Zinnie was at 6) but Pene was Player of the years that season so Mains wasn't alone in thinking he had the goods.
The Auckland tight 5 was pretty much locked in for all of Mains tenure although Loe when available was preferred to Dowd. It was Wyllie who failed to see how good Brown and R Brooke were not Mains.
Mains was the forwards coach and usually had us going well. It was Thorburn in the backs who tried all the crazy shit.
@MN5 In 96 Hart said Liam Barry was the unluckiest player in NZ not to make the squad to go to SA. If you're talking overrated AB open sides it's Hart who had the hard on for Mark Carter....
Most coaches have made some dubious selection calls but it certainly wasn't Lauries strength
That's revisionist BS. Who played the World XV tests?
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@shark I never said Zinny played against the World XV but he came back in the series against Oz and was first choice thereafter. Mains coached the AB's in 32 tests. Zinny played 23 of them so he missed 9 . Six of the nine he missed were before the 2nd test of the Aussie tour of 92. After that he missed 3 tests so what part of "Brooke played in all the tests against Oz in 92 and against SA and was an ever present under Mains" is revisionist BS - other than that I forgot that he missed the first test of that series?
Robin Brooke and Olo Brown debuted against Ireland in 92 and played whenever available from that time on. So no BS there either.
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only two things i take from that photo
cooksley is/was freakishly tall, Inga is awesome
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@Kiwiwomble said in AB "What could have been" XV:
only two things i take from that photo
cooksley is/was freakishly tall, Inga is awesome
JK is a good 6 3 or so standing next to him. He looks like he’s crouching a bit maybe ?
Cooksley was solid as well, what a shame he didn’t appear to have much of a nasty streak.
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@dogmeat Your stats don't tell the full story. As said above by Bovidae, Mains didn't always use him at 8 when he did select Zinny, and as I've said he was also dropped in favour of Pod Turner and Arran Pene at times. I did some googling and found the history in an article which matches my recollection and reinforces why I'm terming your account revisionist BS.
"Brooke was not on new coach Laurie Mains' favoured list when he came to the job in 1992. He was not convinced about the looseforward's work ethic in the international cauldron.
Only the persuasive intervention of Sean Fitzpatrick who was promoted to replace the injured Mike Brewer as All Black captain, convinced Mains to include Brooke for the tour to Australia and South Africa.
The coach did not thaw until Brooke showed enough form, fitness and purpose to make the second test lineup. Mains and Brooke were on the same wavelength at last and the No 8 rewarded that faith with controlled aggression and invention in the historic one-off victory when the tour carried on for the historic resumption of test rugby against the Springboks."
Mains then selected Pene in 1993 vs the Lions and later played Brooke at 6 and 7. It wasn't until the SA serious in 1994 that he re-establishes himself as the All Black 8. Pene started 1994 vs France as the first choice 8.
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@dogmeat Also, of the 23 a couple were as a 6 or 7, and at the very least one - 1st vs France in 1994 - was off the bench. If it's any more than a couple of tests off the bench, you're looking at not many more than 50% of the Mains era tests as the first choice No 8.
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@Kiwiwomble said in AB "What could have been" XV:
only two things i take from that photo
cooksley is/was freakishly tall, Inga is awesome
And that us where it ended.
I recall playing Cooksley in a 10s pre season at Manurewa.
I, like me, non entity Booboo, picked him up in a tackle and drove him backwards and dumped him on his back.
I could not do that to a normal club rugby player
I should never have been able to do that to an All Black.
Played him on a couple of occasions in club footy in the Waikato. Never felt intimidated by him.
A few other blokes less well known ... yeah well ...
Rated only on dimensions.
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@shark said in AB "What could have been" XV:
@booboo Was it he or Chris Tregaskis who was known as 'Big Rig', which had nothing to do with their height/width/weight...?
Definitely cooksley. When I heard why I laughed every time I heard a commentator use thr nickname
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@mariner4life said in AB "What could have been" XV:
@shark said in AB "What could have been" XV:
@booboo Was it he or Chris Tregaskis who was known as 'Big Rig', which had nothing to do with their height/width/weight...?
Definitely cooksley. When I heard why I laughed every time I heard a commentator use thr nickname
Well don't be a holdout. Tell the rest of us so we can have a laugh too.
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I think Pene was player of the year in 93. Z Brooke in 94. Same position.
Zinny missed the France series in 94, and still won player of the year. Reflection of what an abortion that year was as well as how awesome he was.
Zinny got 3 dropped goals in his test career, but in that SAF series in 94 was the first time he attempted one in a test match. Almost a replica of his 1995 RWC semifinal droppie. From halfway but (only just) missed IIRC.
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@shark said in AB "What could have been" XV:
@booboo Was it he or Chris Tregaskis who was known as 'Big Rig', which had nothing to do with their height/width/weight...?
Tregaskis was also affectionately known as "Trash" (for obvious reasons) or "Zigzag" due to the height of his vertical leap
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@Rapido said in AB "What could have been" XV:
I think Pene was player of the year in 93. Z Brooke in 94. Same position.
Zinny missed the France series in 94, and still won player of the year. Reflection of what an abortion that year was as well as how awesome he was.
Zinny got 3 dropped goals in his test career, but in that SAF series in 94 was the first time he attempted one in a test match. Almost a replica of his 1995 RWC semifinal droppie. From halfway but (only just) missed IIRC.
Yeah what were the three, was it Eng 95, SA in SA 96 and one on the EOYT in 97?
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@shark said in AB "What could have been" XV:
@Rapido said in AB "What could have been" XV:
I think Pene was player of the year in 93. Z Brooke in 94. Same position.
Zinny missed the France series in 94, and still won player of the year. Reflection of what an abortion that year was as well as how awesome he was.
Zinny got 3 dropped goals in his test career, but in that SAF series in 94 was the first time he attempted one in a test match. Almost a replica of his 1995 RWC semifinal droppie. From halfway but (only just) missed IIRC.
Yeah what were the three, was it Eng 95, SA in SA 96 and one on the EOYT in 97?
Yes. Wales at Wembley.
