AB "What could have been" XV
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@dogmeat said in AB "What could have been" XV:
although to be fair Farrell played bloody good rugby for Akl and would have thrived in the modern game. Running fullback but picked too young and played in poor conditions in a team that didn't want to run the ball.
Absolutely. He was great for AKL which is why he got into the ABs. Had a bloody 'mare though when there.
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The story of his selection is an interesting one!
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@Bovidae said in AB "What could have been" XV:
@Rapido said in AB "What could have been" XV:
Cooper at 12 was really to compromise for the fact post-Fox 10s didn't kick goals (S Bachop and Ellis) and the still (3 years later!) post Gallager and Ridge fullbacks were converted wingers who also didn't kick goals.
Yes, as evidenced in the loss to England in 1993. Cooper was injured from the previous test against Scotland so with Timu at fullback and Ellis at 1st 5 a young Wilson (in his second test) was forced to be the goal kicker, and missed plenty.
And with Tim's post above, second test v France. Cooper was re-selected again at 12. To kick goals, as Mannix was dropped after first test.
It's a pain in the arse when you don't have a player and his replacement of equally proficient goal kicking skill. End up with compromised selections and entire backline reshuffles to cover for the flaw. Like a fullback at centre in RWC semi-finals.
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Maybe not someone who 'could have been special' but don't know what he must have done to never get a look in. Ash Dixon. Magpie/Highlanders/NZM captain. Can throw and is consistent around the field. Surprises me particularly one year he didn't get a shot when Coles and someone else were both injured.
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@Bovidae said in AB "What could have been" XV:
Marty was mentioned as a possible AB before most had even heard of Robin. Part of that Marist and Auckland team. A bit of a thug on the field though.
I was having a flick through Zinnys book while visiting the other halfs family some months back ( her Dad has every All Black biography ever printed I'm sure of it ). There were two other brothers who looked like strapping brutes too. Did they ever play ?
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@dogmeat said in AB "What could have been" XV:
@shark I agree Mains was a poor selector but its BS to say he didn't realise Zinny's value. Brooke played in all the tests against Oz in 92 and against SA and was an ever present under Mains. Pene did start in a Lions Test in 93 and against England that year (Zinnie was at 6) but Pene was Player of the years that season so Mains wasn't alone in thinking he had the goods.
The Auckland tight 5 was pretty much locked in for all of Mains tenure although Loe when available was preferred to Dowd. It was Wyllie who failed to see how good Brown and R Brooke were not Mains.
Mains was the forwards coach and usually had us going well. It was Thorburn in the backs who tried all the crazy shit.
@MN5 In 96 Hart said Liam Barry was the unluckiest player in NZ not to make the squad to go to SA. If you're talking overrated AB open sides it's Hart who had the hard on for Mark Carter....
Most coaches have made some dubious selection calls but it certainly wasn't Lauries strength
That's revisionist BS. Who played the World XV tests?
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@shark I never said Zinny played against the World XV but he came back in the series against Oz and was first choice thereafter. Mains coached the AB's in 32 tests. Zinny played 23 of them so he missed 9 . Six of the nine he missed were before the 2nd test of the Aussie tour of 92. After that he missed 3 tests so what part of "Brooke played in all the tests against Oz in 92 and against SA and was an ever present under Mains" is revisionist BS - other than that I forgot that he missed the first test of that series?
Robin Brooke and Olo Brown debuted against Ireland in 92 and played whenever available from that time on. So no BS there either.
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only two things i take from that photo
cooksley is/was freakishly tall, Inga is awesome
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@Kiwiwomble said in AB "What could have been" XV:
only two things i take from that photo
cooksley is/was freakishly tall, Inga is awesome
JK is a good 6 3 or so standing next to him. He looks like he’s crouching a bit maybe ?
Cooksley was solid as well, what a shame he didn’t appear to have much of a nasty streak.
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@dogmeat Your stats don't tell the full story. As said above by Bovidae, Mains didn't always use him at 8 when he did select Zinny, and as I've said he was also dropped in favour of Pod Turner and Arran Pene at times. I did some googling and found the history in an article which matches my recollection and reinforces why I'm terming your account revisionist BS.
"Brooke was not on new coach Laurie Mains' favoured list when he came to the job in 1992. He was not convinced about the looseforward's work ethic in the international cauldron.
Only the persuasive intervention of Sean Fitzpatrick who was promoted to replace the injured Mike Brewer as All Black captain, convinced Mains to include Brooke for the tour to Australia and South Africa.
The coach did not thaw until Brooke showed enough form, fitness and purpose to make the second test lineup. Mains and Brooke were on the same wavelength at last and the No 8 rewarded that faith with controlled aggression and invention in the historic one-off victory when the tour carried on for the historic resumption of test rugby against the Springboks."
Mains then selected Pene in 1993 vs the Lions and later played Brooke at 6 and 7. It wasn't until the SA serious in 1994 that he re-establishes himself as the All Black 8. Pene started 1994 vs France as the first choice 8.
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@dogmeat Also, of the 23 a couple were as a 6 or 7, and at the very least one - 1st vs France in 1994 - was off the bench. If it's any more than a couple of tests off the bench, you're looking at not many more than 50% of the Mains era tests as the first choice No 8.
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@Kiwiwomble said in AB "What could have been" XV:
only two things i take from that photo
cooksley is/was freakishly tall, Inga is awesome
And that us where it ended.
I recall playing Cooksley in a 10s pre season at Manurewa.
I, like me, non entity Booboo, picked him up in a tackle and drove him backwards and dumped him on his back.
I could not do that to a normal club rugby player
I should never have been able to do that to an All Black.
Played him on a couple of occasions in club footy in the Waikato. Never felt intimidated by him.
A few other blokes less well known ... yeah well ...
Rated only on dimensions.
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