Worst All Black RWC exits
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@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Nah. 99 was a choke. 07 was players with a wealth of experience knowing that in those situations the penalty always happens. What their experience didn't account for was near criminal incompetence. A referee unwilling to do his job.
I'll still argue for a choke.
Given the calibre of those players, we should have done more than wait for a penalty. Tries, dropgoals, anything - arguably the choke was relying on the ref. There was no plan to squeeze a DG there, and no training.
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@nzzp said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Nah. 99 was a choke. 07 was players with a wealth of experience knowing that in those situations the penalty always happens. What their experience didn't account for was near criminal incompetence. A referee unwilling to do his job.
I'll still argue for a choke.
Given the calibre of those players, we should have done more than wait for a penalty. Tries, dropgoals, anything - arguably the choke was relying on the ref. There was no plan to squeeze a DG there, and no training.
I was OK with the no droppie at the time. It's such a low % score (for NZ anyway, especially at that time), and it really felt like the penalty was coming - it had too!!!
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@sdrggyy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
England were not better side than the All Blacks. Not even close.
The difference was mental and tactical.
and we didn't even lose!! We just didn't win!
Prolly even throw 2019 on the Jersey along with 1997, 2011 and 2015, come next world cup.
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The 2019 result was different to almost every other world cup exit because we weren't even the form team going into the tournament.
It wasn't some big surprise when England bailed us out, we had been on a rapid downward trajectory ever since Wayne Smith left.
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@sdrggyy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
The 2019 result was different to almost every other world cup exit because we weren't even the form team going into the tournament.
It wasn't some big surprise when England bailed us out, we had been on a rapid downward trajectory ever since Wayne Smith left.
So England were the better side?
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@Hooroo On paper, obviously not. The unsurprising part was the All Blacks getting out-coached again, which had already been common sight over the previous cycle. Since this had been a recent trend, it happening again wasn't surprising.
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@sdrggyy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Hooroo On paper, obviously not. The unsurprising part was the All Blacks getting out-coached again, which had already been common sight over the previous cycle. Since this had been a recent trend, it happening again wasn't surprising.
So the better team lost on the day. Okayyyyy
You're dreaming. England were the better team and showed it with a class performance. It's completely irrelevant if there are better players on the losing side.
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@Bones said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Yeah went for 2007 but I was actually having a great night that night - I remember 99 as I was living in the capital and the next day it was an absolute ghost town and grim. 2003 I was in Sydney and headed out afterwards for a massively chaotic night, but the sorrows were largely drowned. 95 I was just finishing up college and it was more shock than disappointment.
I was there too, did the trip over from london with the Beige Brigade, had been too a few AB's games over the years before and the locals were always up for a laugh....after that game we got a bit of abuse though, welsh giving us the "finally got what you deserve!" etc and not in a bants kind of way, was a double downer as a lot of us were keen on a fun night to drown the sorrows
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@Hooroo said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@sdrggyy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Hooroo On paper, obviously not. The unsurprising part was the All Blacks getting out-coached again, which had already been common sight over the previous cycle. Since this had been a recent trend, it happening again wasn't surprising.
So the better team lost on the day. Okayyyyy
You're dreaming. England were the better team and showed it with a class performance. It's completely irrelevant if there are better players on the losing side.
That match was lost tactically and up-front and Hansen oversees the forwards, he went into it with the wrong tactical approach and played right into Eddie's hands. We got destroyed at the breakdown and the amount of collisions we were losing was unprecedented.
With a different coach we win that game.
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@Kiwiwomble "there"?
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@sdrggyy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Hooroo said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@sdrggyy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Hooroo On paper, obviously not. The unsurprising part was the All Blacks getting out-coached again, which had already been common sight over the previous cycle. Since this had been a recent trend, it happening again wasn't surprising.
So the better team lost on the day. Okayyyyy
You're dreaming. England were the better team and showed it with a class performance. It's completely irrelevant if there are better players on the losing side.
That match was lost tactically and up-front and Hansen oversees the forwards, he went into it with the wrong tactical approach and played right into Eddie's hands. We got destroyed at the breakdown and the amount of collisions we were losing was unprecedented.
Almost like losing to the better team.
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how many of our starting pack would have started for them in 2019?
Their front rowers were better, their locks were in better form, their loosies were better...
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@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
how many of our starting pack would have started for them in 2019?
Their front rowers were better, their locks were in better form, their loosies were better...
Don't do the analysis mate! Just be one-eyed and play a blame game! It's the kiwi way!!
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@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
how many of our starting pack would have started for them in 2019?
Their front rowers were better, their locks were in better form, their loosies were better...
This was only after the fact where we put a lock up against them and changed the entire pattern of how the loosies had been playing.
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@Nepia said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
how many of our starting pack would have started for them in 2019?
Their front rowers were better, their locks were in better form, their loosies were better...
This was only after the fact where we put a lock up against them and changed the entire pattern of how the loosies had been playing.
um, our #8 and skipper had been pretty ordinary for 12 months. The plan was basically to hope he had one good set of games left in him. He didn't.
SB is obvious. But the other plan had a good 7 playing as a servicable 6. Pardon me if i hope for a little more.
And what was on the bench?
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@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Nepia said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
how many of our starting pack would have started for them in 2019?
Their front rowers were better, their locks were in better form, their loosies were better...
This was only after the fact where we put a lock up against them and changed the entire pattern of how the loosies had been playing.
um, our #8 and skipper had been pretty ordinary for 12 months. The plan was basically to hope he had one good set of games left in him. He didn't.
SB is obvious. But the other plan had a good 7 playing as a servicable 6. Pardon me if i hope for a little more.
And what was on the bench?
I don't disagree with that, but the Cane, Read, Savea combo had at least worked out a decent pattern in the lead up games, instead we changed it. We lost the game in the first 10 minutes due to poor defence, meanwhile our best offensive defence player was sitting on that bench.
I actually have little issue with how SB played, he put in a ok shift but he wasn't what was needed at the time.
The England loosies were made to look better by our poor selectorial decisions.
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@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Snowy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Snowy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@sdrggyy Wayne Barnes ruined my faith in rugby that day I was fuming sitting in the stands. I also believe that he was there to make sure that we lost. An entire game of rugby and one side only gets penalised twice? France of all teams too? Beggars belief. I think that I have been to two internationals since and not one world cup match because of it.
Barnes was badly let down by his touch judges
Yes he was. Which adds to my conspiracy theory that they wanted the hosts to move through. Worst officiating that I have ever witnessed.
as a group, they were appalling. And a couple of the penalties that should have been blown were right in front of the touchie as well.
We still should have found a way to win though, given the ball and territory, and forward dominance. There was a collective failing of on-field leadership, not helped by losing both our 10s. A perfect storm of absolute shit.
Agreed. While I tend to disagree with the notion that 2007 was massive choke like 1999 - in the sense that in 2007 we didn't become overwhelmed and go completely into our shells in the face of a French onslaught, but actually took a firm hold on the match after falling behind - we were pretty bloody naive to think that we could win by trying to up the jumper our way to a match-winning try or penalty in the circumstances.
