Worst All Black RWC exits
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@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Snowy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@sdrggyy Wayne Barnes ruined my faith in rugby that day I was fuming sitting in the stands. I also believe that he was there to make sure that we lost. An entire game of rugby and one side only gets penalised twice? France of all teams too? Beggars belief. I think that I have been to two internationals since and not one world cup match because of it.
Barnes was badly let down by his touch judges
Yes he was. Which adds to my conspiracy theory that they wanted the hosts to move through. Worst officiating that I have ever witnessed.
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@Snowy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Snowy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@sdrggyy Wayne Barnes ruined my faith in rugby that day I was fuming sitting in the stands. I also believe that he was there to make sure that we lost. An entire game of rugby and one side only gets penalised twice? France of all teams too? Beggars belief. I think that I have been to two internationals since and not one world cup match because of it.
Barnes was badly let down by his touch judges
Yes he was. Which adds to my conspiracy theory that they wanted the hosts to move through. Worst officiating that I have ever witnessed.
as a group, they were appalling. And a couple of the penalties that should have been blown were right in front of the touchie as well.
We still should have found a way to win though, given the ball and territory, and forward dominance. There was a collective failing of on-field leadership, not helped by losing both our 10s. A perfect storm of absolute shit.
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@mariner4life @Snowy arguably that set up the next decade of dominance. It took until McCaw retired to really process the need to actually win the game - not just be better than the opposition.
Still one of the great chokes, one of the greatest underdog victories, and one of the most incompetent refereeing displays ever
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@nzzp said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life @Snowy arguably that set up the next decade of dominance. It took until McCaw retired to really process the need to actually win the game - not just be better than the opposition.
Still one of the great chokes, one of the greatest underdog victories, and one of the most incompetent refereeing displays ever
it was definitely all 3 of those things
Barnes grew on me as a ref though, i thought he developed a really good feel for the game. He would always make one big error though (and if we are honest, that's not a bad strike rate)
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@nzzp I still don't believe that we were going to be allowed to win that. Some of the decisions were blatant bias or deliberate blindness which would have been very hard to overcome. I don't see it as an underdog victory I see it as corrupt officials influencing the outcome due to home advantage (and yes it was Cardiff, but believe me that was a France home game in that stadium).
Yes Barnes got better, he probably wasn't trying to influence results after that.
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@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Snowy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Snowy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@sdrggyy Wayne Barnes ruined my faith in rugby that day I was fuming sitting in the stands. I also believe that he was there to make sure that we lost. An entire game of rugby and one side only gets penalised twice? France of all teams too? Beggars belief. I think that I have been to two internationals since and not one world cup match because of it.
Barnes was badly let down by his touch judges
Yes he was. Which adds to my conspiracy theory that they wanted the hosts to move through. Worst officiating that I have ever witnessed.
as a group, they were appalling. And a couple of the penalties that should have been blown were right in front of the touchie as well.
Kaplan did his best Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles impersonation that day.
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@sdrggyy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
2019 we lost solely because of own our fault - no external factors involved.
I think England were an external factor, honestly don't think there was much between ABs, Boks and England, on any given day any of the three teams could have won imho. England caught us flat, Boks caught England flat.
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@DMX said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@sdrggyy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
2019 we lost solely because of own our fault - no external factors involved.
I think England were an external factor, honestly don't think there was much between ABs, Boks and England, on any given day any of the three teams could have won imho. England caught us flat, Boks caught England flat.
it could have happened in 2015 in the semi as well, if we didn't have a team stacked with some of the greatest players in NZ history all operating at near peak level.
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@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@nzzp said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life @Snowy arguably that set up the next decade of dominance. It took until McCaw retired to really process the need to actually win the game - not just be better than the opposition.
Still one of the great chokes, one of the greatest underdog victories, and one of the most incompetent refereeing displays ever
it was definitely all 3 of those things
Nah. 99 was a choke. 07 was players with a wealth of experience knowing that in those situations the penalty always happens. What their experience didn't account for was near criminal incompetence. A referee unwilling to do his job.
Barnes grew on me as a ref though, i thought he developed a really good feel for the game. He would always make one big error though (and if we are honest, that's not a bad strike rate)
Barnes developed into a ref with very good communication with players and became decisive, but never understood the ruck. It appeared to me that he was mentally overwhelmed with what he witnessed and became paralysed.
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@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Nah. 99 was a choke. 07 was players with a wealth of experience knowing that in those situations the penalty always happens. What their experience didn't account for was near criminal incompetence. A referee unwilling to do his job.
I'll still argue for a choke.
Given the calibre of those players, we should have done more than wait for a penalty. Tries, dropgoals, anything - arguably the choke was relying on the ref. There was no plan to squeeze a DG there, and no training.
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@nzzp said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Nah. 99 was a choke. 07 was players with a wealth of experience knowing that in those situations the penalty always happens. What their experience didn't account for was near criminal incompetence. A referee unwilling to do his job.
I'll still argue for a choke.
Given the calibre of those players, we should have done more than wait for a penalty. Tries, dropgoals, anything - arguably the choke was relying on the ref. There was no plan to squeeze a DG there, and no training.
I was OK with the no droppie at the time. It's such a low % score (for NZ anyway, especially at that time), and it really felt like the penalty was coming - it had too!!!
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@sdrggyy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
England were not better side than the All Blacks. Not even close.
The difference was mental and tactical.
and we didn't even lose!! We just didn't win!
Prolly even throw 2019 on the Jersey along with 1997, 2011 and 2015, come next world cup.
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The 2019 result was different to almost every other world cup exit because we weren't even the form team going into the tournament.
It wasn't some big surprise when England bailed us out, we had been on a rapid downward trajectory ever since Wayne Smith left.
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@sdrggyy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
The 2019 result was different to almost every other world cup exit because we weren't even the form team going into the tournament.
It wasn't some big surprise when England bailed us out, we had been on a rapid downward trajectory ever since Wayne Smith left.
So England were the better side?
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@Hooroo On paper, obviously not. The unsurprising part was the All Blacks getting out-coached again, which had already been common sight over the previous cycle. Since this had been a recent trend, it happening again wasn't surprising.
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@sdrggyy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Hooroo On paper, obviously not. The unsurprising part was the All Blacks getting out-coached again, which had already been common sight over the previous cycle. Since this had been a recent trend, it happening again wasn't surprising.
So the better team lost on the day. Okayyyyy
You're dreaming. England were the better team and showed it with a class performance. It's completely irrelevant if there are better players on the losing side.
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@Bones said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Yeah went for 2007 but I was actually having a great night that night - I remember 99 as I was living in the capital and the next day it was an absolute ghost town and grim. 2003 I was in Sydney and headed out afterwards for a massively chaotic night, but the sorrows were largely drowned. 95 I was just finishing up college and it was more shock than disappointment.
I was there too, did the trip over from london with the Beige Brigade, had been too a few AB's games over the years before and the locals were always up for a laugh....after that game we got a bit of abuse though, welsh giving us the "finally got what you deserve!" etc and not in a bants kind of way, was a double downer as a lot of us were keen on a fun night to drown the sorrows
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@Hooroo said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@sdrggyy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Hooroo On paper, obviously not. The unsurprising part was the All Blacks getting out-coached again, which had already been common sight over the previous cycle. Since this had been a recent trend, it happening again wasn't surprising.
So the better team lost on the day. Okayyyyy
You're dreaming. England were the better team and showed it with a class performance. It's completely irrelevant if there are better players on the losing side.
That match was lost tactically and up-front and Hansen oversees the forwards, he went into it with the wrong tactical approach and played right into Eddie's hands. We got destroyed at the breakdown and the amount of collisions we were losing was unprecedented.
With a different coach we win that game.
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@Kiwiwomble "there"?
