AB Depth Chart 2020
-
-
@Crucial said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@kiwiinmelb said in Blues v Highlanders:
Apologies if it’s already been discussed, And to go with that, is beaudy at 15 the best option for the ABs going forward ?
If it’s a yes , I’m all for him playing 15 at this level
This comment in another thread is worthy of discussion here.
We have had this problem for a while now IMO. As good a player as BB is, IMO he is not the type of 10 that we really need in the ABs.
Trouble is that we don't have any of those 10s around. Old Cruden (minus the chip kicks) would be the closest we have to a 10 that reads the opposition well and calls the shots on the fly. Someone that watches the opposition and works the ball into weak areas while changing gameplans when they have your own areas figured out.
BB has never been that guy and Mounga is also BB light.
So back to the reality and is BB the best option at the moment?
He has to be on the field at 10 or 15 so it will simply be a case (as per last year) of whether we gain more from a DMac or JB at the back than we do from Mounga at the front.Yeah, a tough one. I was firmly in the camp that moving BB to 10 in 2016 was a big mistake and that we should have persisted with Cruden at 10 instead of pushing him and Sopoaga out of NZ. I still held that view up until last year in the basis that I didn’t think BB was the guy to get the best out of our backline.
However, with the benefit of RWC failure induced hindsight, we absolutely should have played him at 10 last year and the decision not to was, IMO, a major factor in us not getting the business done last year.
Truth is, Richie simply wasn’t up to it and may never be. BB had also been running the cutter reasonably well for the previous 4 years, during which he won World Rugby POTY in 2016 and 2017. We had an entire backline and forward pack who’d been playing pretty well with him as their 10. He was also our best player and so there was some logic in having his hands on the ball frequently.
I personally think he should return to the 10 jersey until the next legendary 10 comes along because he’s frankly the best of the bunch we currently have and by quite a way.
-
@Stargazer said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Old-Samurai-Jack Yes. The coaches gave him way too little game time in 2018 and stuck with the Barrett-Dmac combo that didn't work instead. It was really odd. Then he's thrown into the deep in a RWC year and performed well for a rookie in most games. I'll never forget that awesome try-saving tackle on Cheslin Kolbe in the first RWC round! And somehow, some people, only seem to remember a RWC semi-final that was mostly lost in the forwards, and due to weird selection choices and a weak game plan from the coaches.
The BB DMac combo actually worked quite well in 2018 and certainly better than the RM BB combo in 2019. You’re forgetting that the key reason why the new combo was tried at all was because of the injury to DMac
-
@junior said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Stargazer said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Old-Samurai-Jack Yes. The coaches gave him way too little game time in 2018 and stuck with the Barrett-Dmac combo that didn't work instead. It was really odd. Then he's thrown into the deep in a RWC year and performed well for a rookie in most games. I'll never forget that awesome try-saving tackle on Cheslin Kolbe in the first RWC round! And somehow, some people, only seem to remember a RWC semi-final that was mostly lost in the forwards, and due to weird selection choices and a weak game plan from the coaches.
The BB DMac combo actually worked quite well in 2018 and certainly better than the RM BB combo in 2019. You’re forgetting that the key reason why the new combo was tried at all was because of the injury to DMac
And it would’ve been the 10-15 combo for the RWC if DMac wasn’t crook. So I’m not too critical on the coaches for trying to replicate it - have two fast paced players at 10 and 15, but the combination hadn’t really developed and add in a revolving midfield door, time was against us to get it really humming before the business end.
Whilst the England game is most disappointing, let’s not forget that the Irish game was IMO a really solid showing from both forwards and backs.
-
@Machpants didn’t win a World Cup though did we? Suddenly we get a tall 6 and 8 who can win lineout ball and we start (a) winning our own 2 ball when leading a RWC final by a single point (b) pinching ball of Victor Fucking Matefield of all people when leading a RWC semi final by two points, which helps us to win consecutive world cups
-
@cgrant said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
I have nothing against Tomkinson but I can't imagine he is the best non capped 2nd Five in the country ! Faiane, Nankivell or Walden are better options IMO.
Pretty hard to point out anything the latter two have done in SRA.
-
@junior said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Machpants didn’t win a World Cup though did we? Suddenly we get a tall 6 and 8 who can win lineout ball and we start (a) winning our own 2 ball when leading a RWC final by a single point (b) pinching ball of Victor Fucking Matefield of all people when leading a RWC semi final by two points, which helps us to win consecutive world cups
And yet, with our best locking combo ever and an extra lock in 6 we still didn't win the RWC, it is almost like it is not the only factor to winning games, a great line out.
-
@Machpants said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@junior said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Machpants didn’t win a World Cup though did we? Suddenly we get a tall 6 and 8 who can win lineout ball and we start (a) winning our own 2 ball when leading a RWC final by a single point (b) pinching ball of Victor Fucking Matefield of all people when leading a RWC semi final by two points, which helps us to win consecutive world cups
And yet, with our best locking combo ever and an extra lock in 6 we still didn't win the RWC, it is almost like it is not the only factor to winning games, a great line out.
held back by a lack of physicality at 7. A journeyman at 6. And a spent force at 8.
-
@mariner4life said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Machpants said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@junior said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Machpants didn’t win a World Cup though did we? Suddenly we get a tall 6 and 8 who can win lineout ball and we start (a) winning our own 2 ball when leading a RWC final by a single point (b) pinching ball of Victor Fucking Matefield of all people when leading a RWC semi final by two points, which helps us to win consecutive world cups
And yet, with our best locking combo ever and an extra lock in 6 we still didn't win the RWC, it is almost like it is not the only factor to winning games, a great line out.
held back by a lack of physicality at 7. A journeyman at 6. And a spent force at 8.
And said best locking combo ever was also well below their peaks
-
@voodoo said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@mariner4life said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Machpants said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@junior said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Machpants didn’t win a World Cup though did we? Suddenly we get a tall 6 and 8 who can win lineout ball and we start (a) winning our own 2 ball when leading a RWC final by a single point (b) pinching ball of Victor Fucking Matefield of all people when leading a RWC semi final by two points, which helps us to win consecutive world cups
And yet, with our best locking combo ever and an extra lock in 6 we still didn't win the RWC, it is almost like it is not the only factor to winning games, a great line out.
held back by a lack of physicality at 7. A journeyman at 6. And a spent force at 8.
And said best locking combo ever was also well below their peaks
... and nwo I'm thinking of Sam Whitelock's push on Punchable Face. Fark.
-
@nzzp said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@cgrant depth really improving, but we are missing that tall timber at 6 as a lineout option. Robinson possibly the best candidate in the lineout, but not sure the others are that good are they?
Fark Kaino left a hole
We've never really used the 6 as a lineout option in a while. When Kaino played he was the 4th option after the locks and Read. What you do need is either the 6 or 8 to be a genuine target, as Read showed. In fact, he was often used more than BBBR.
A taller 6 can help as a lifter though. But picking a tall 6 to strengthen the lineout and then not using them is just as dumb. Eh Steve.
-
@Bovidae Jerry was rarely used as well when he played for the ABs at least. Have to go back to Gibbes and Thorne as more frequently used LO options at blindside.
-
@ACT-Crusader said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Bovidae Jerry was rarely used as well when he played for the ABs at least. Have to go back to Gibbes and Thorne as more frequently used LO options at blindside.
Interesting - my memory is shitty enough to not challenge you on this, but I always had Jerry down as a very good and well-utilised LO option. Maybe I'm coloured by his efforts there in yellow?
-
@voodoo said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@ACT-Crusader said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Bovidae Jerry was rarely used as well when he played for the ABs at least. Have to go back to Gibbes and Thorne as more frequently used LO options at blindside.
Interesting - my memory is shitty enough to not challenge you on this, but I always had Jerry down as a very good and well-utilised LO option. Maybe I'm coloured by his efforts there in yellow?
Think Rodders was probably used more.
-
tall lifters are as important as tall jumpers
also, having 4 good options creates huge doubt in a defending lineout.
-
@ACT-Crusader And even further back than that. Brewer/Joseph and AJ Whetton.
The thing is that in recent years if the AB 6 or 8 is used in the lineout it is often at the front, not at the tail of the lineout.
-
@Bones said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@cgrant said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
I have nothing against Tomkinson but I can't imagine he is the best non capped 2nd Five in the country ! Faiane, Nankivell or Walden are better options IMO.
Pretty hard to point out anything the latter two have done in SRA.
My opinion is based from what I have seen earlier this year. Tomkinson has played in one game of SRA so far but more in SR.
-
@voodoo said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@ACT-Crusader said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Bovidae Jerry was rarely used as well when he played for the ABs at least. Have to go back to Gibbes and Thorne as more frequently used LO options at blindside.
Interesting - my memory is shitty enough to not challenge you on this, but I always had Jerry down as a very good and well-utilised LO option. Maybe I'm coloured by his efforts there in yellow?
Definitely a more used option for the Canes.
-
@mariner4life said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
tall lifters are as important as tall jumpers
also, having 4 good options creates huge doubt in a defending lineout.
Matfield, Botha, Burger, Juan Smith - very rarely lost LO ball and stole plenty.
-
@cgrant said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Bones said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@cgrant said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
I have nothing against Tomkinson but I can't imagine he is the best non capped 2nd Five in the country ! Faiane, Nankivell or Walden are better options IMO.
Pretty hard to point out anything the latter two have done in SRA.
My opinion is based from what I have seen earlier this year. Tomkinson has played in one game of SRA so far but more in SR.
Oh it's an opinion I 100% agree with....but I just thought you were commenting on the SRA form selection post which is the only place I've seen anyone say Tomkinson is the best 12.
