The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen
-
@Canerbry said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
All talent, no ticker. Should have been sent to the Crusaders for a season or three.
Harsh assessment of Kahui there. Can you remember what WtW heard Ted say about Toeava also?
-
@Canerbry said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
All talent, no ticker. Should have been sent to the Crusaders for a season or three.
As opposed to the speeding tortoise Caleb Ralph. All ticker, no talent.
-
From late 2009 onwards Toeava was world class as an outside back. SBW arriving in 2010 hoovered up a lot of the opportunities that probably should have gone his way (bench spot, wing vs Argentina in the QF).
Unless there was something particularly unique about Toeava there doesn't seem any reason to abandon the "if you are young enough, you are good enough" approach. Here is a list of players capped for the ABs before their 21st brithday:
Ioane
Joe Roks
Cullen
Lomu
Cane
McCaw
Barrett
Guildford
Mauger
Atinga
Collins
RalphFairly good strike rate.
-
I still have to side with Davidav on this one . I would say Toeava had the potential and physical gifts to be a world class player but issues with injury and confidence never allowed him to reach his potential. His error rate was just too high. It was a layup for him to be in the starting XV for the 2011 World Cup and he initially was but I think the cartel simply lost faith in him for the big games.
-
@ACT-Crusader said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
@canefan all jokes aside, the best footy I saw him play was at 2nd 5 for the Blues. He had matured as a player. He had the speed, vision and kicking game.
I don’t know how to do it, but if anyone can dig up an old post I think by willie the weka who sat near Graham Henry and co at a Chiefs v Blues game and some of the comments overheard about the Toeava vs Kahui matchup.
Yep there was a Super Rugby semi final against the Sharks in Durban where he almost single-handedly won the match for the Blues playing at 12 before going off injured (and then the Blues predictable fell apart thereafter).
I feel like that was an exemplar of his later career - any time he looked like he was about to really fulfil his potential and show people he was the player the Cartel said he was, he'd end up injured.
-
@DMX said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
I still have to side with Davidav on this one . I would say Toeava had the potential and physical gifts to be a world class player but issues with injury and confidence never allowed him to reach his potential. His error rate was just too high. It was a layup for him to be in the starting XV for the 2011 World Cup and he initially was but I think the cartel simply lost faith in him for the big games.
he's only 33.
Could have been a starter in 2011, 2015 and 2019 if he'd delivered. A real tragedy that we lost him to NZ rugby.
-
The way I remember it , had so many injuries and thrown around in so many positions he never really settled ,
Hard to knock the ab coaching set up at that time, but I agreee with shag , I don’t think they helped his development not just by playing him early, but thrown straight back in to the deep end at times after injuries , when he clearly didn’t look quite right confidence wise with a lack of rugby behind him.
-
Man there’s some revisionism here.
Possum in a headlights early on and never ever seemed to go through an AB match without some sort of handling error, dropped ball etc.
He probably would have been better with age but he wasn’t a major loss like losing a player at the peak of his powers.
-
@Billy-Tell said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
Man there’s some revisionism here.
Possum in a headlights early on and never ever seemed to go through an AB match without some sort of handling error, dropped ball etc.
He probably would have been better with age but he wasn’t a major loss like losing a player at the peak of his powers.
so why would Hansen identify him as the most talented player he's ever seen?
-
@Billy-Tell said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
never ever seemed to go through an AB match without some sort of handling error, dropped ball etc.
Bit like SBW then.
But Toeava had the time to grow and develop. Pity he never really had the chance in Black.
-
@nzzp said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
@Billy-Tell said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
Man there’s some revisionism here.
Possum in a headlights early on and never ever seemed to go through an AB match without some sort of handling error, dropped ball etc.
He probably would have been better with age but he wasn’t a major loss like losing a player at the peak of his powers.
so why would Hansen identify him as the most talented player he's ever seen?
Never said he wasn’t talented. Just didn’t perform to an amazing level despite all that talent.
-
@Billy-Tell said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
@nzzp said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
@Billy-Tell said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
Man there’s some revisionism here.
Possum in a headlights early on and never ever seemed to go through an AB match without some sort of handling error, dropped ball etc.
He probably would have been better with age but he wasn’t a major loss like losing a player at the peak of his powers.
so why would Hansen identify him as the most talented player he's ever seen?
Never said he wasn’t talented. Just didn’t perform to an amazing level despite all that talent.
Which is why shag has accepted responsibility, thrown in when he wasn’t really up to it , selection error , and probably lessons learned for how they develop the likes of Brodie as a comparison
-
@kiwiinmelb said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
@Billy-Tell said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
@nzzp said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
@Billy-Tell said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
Man there’s some revisionism here.
Possum in a headlights early on and never ever seemed to go through an AB match without some sort of handling error, dropped ball etc.
He probably would have been better with age but he wasn’t a major loss like losing a player at the peak of his powers.
so why would Hansen identify him as the most talented player he's ever seen?
Never said he wasn’t talented. Just didn’t perform to an amazing level despite all that talent.
Which is why shag has accepted responsibility, thrown in when he wasn’t really up to it , selection error , and probably lessons learned for how they develop the likes of Brodie as a comparison
As I said before, he was electric at FB for the Canes in his first year. He went into MF not that long after IIRC. I felt that if he had been allowed to stay at 15 for a few seasons, where he had more time, his option taking would have developed better
-
And I think the article is meant to be more about coaching/selecting decisions than toeava himself ,
Toeava is an example of where they got it wrong
-
@nzzp said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
@Billy-Tell said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
Man there’s some revisionism here.
Possum in a headlights early on and never ever seemed to go through an AB match without some sort of handling error, dropped ball etc.
He probably would have been better with age but he wasn’t a major loss like losing a player at the peak of his powers.
so why would Hansen identify him as the most talented player he's ever seen?
Did he though... Is that what he actually said?
-
@Bones said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
@nzzp said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
@Billy-Tell said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
Man there’s some revisionism here.
Possum in a headlights early on and never ever seemed to go through an AB match without some sort of handling error, dropped ball etc.
He probably would have been better with age but he wasn’t a major loss like losing a player at the peak of his powers.
so why would Hansen identify him as the most talented player he's ever seen?
Did he though... Is that what he actually said?
You know you can read the article right?
"I look at Isaia Toeava as one of those. He was probably the most talented rugby player I've ever seen and we put him in the team too early.“
-
@Billy-Tell said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
Man there’s some revisionism here.
Possum in a headlights early on and never ever seemed to go through an AB match without some sort of handling error, dropped ball etc.
He probably would have been better with age but he wasn’t a major loss like losing a player at the peak of his powers.
Talk about revisionism. What an absolute crock of shite. He spilt the ball a few times early on and you want to put that bullshit on him for the rest of his career in NZ.
He performed well many times including MoTM performances including coming on against SA at 12 replacing Nonu and completely turning the game around for the ABs.
Yes, his time was cut too short by injury (from memory, a really nasty hip injury which required very specialist care) and yes it was certainly impacted by his ability to play in almost any position.
I do agree with those who say he was a bit overawed in his first outings in Black but he settled in and played well in most outings. And sure, the GoaT aside, most players have off matches, just look at the first half of the Namibia match.
For the Cantab Goodhue fanbois, how many dropped balls from him since returning from injury?
And here's another article from the Herald about Ice from his own point of view focusing on his injuries.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12238517
-
@RoninWC said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
Yes, his time was cut too short by injury (from memory, a really nasty hip injury which required very specialist care) and yes it was certainly impacted by his ability to play in almost any position.
amazing that he's still playing.. i remember seeing him in the adidas clinic when i was having shoulder issues and my surgeon then was saying how completely farked his hips were and he'd be lucky to keep playing. That was a long time ago now.. must be close to 10 years.
Be dropping the voltarens like lollies! -
@Kirwan said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:
You know you can read the article right?
"I look at Isaia Toeava as one of those. He was probably the most talented rugby player I've ever seen and we put him in the team too early.“
Been reading this purely to wait for you to wade in .... disappointment honestly, expected much more
#isidewithdavidav
