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The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen

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allblacks
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The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen
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  • kiwiinmelbK Offline
    kiwiinmelbK Offline
    kiwiinmelb
    wrote on last edited by kiwiinmelb
    #11

    Shag is just doing this for sentimental reasons ,

    Nothing like a toeava windup for old times sake.

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  • ACT CrusaderA Offline
    ACT CrusaderA Offline
    ACT Crusader
    replied to Jailbreak7 on last edited by
    #12

    @Jailbreak7 said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    Whilst Toeava may have been selected before his time - Richie was definately the GOAT

    Not sure what Richie has to do with this conversation?

    The only person that thought Richie was selected too early was Kronfeld...

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  • DamoD Offline
    DamoD Offline
    Damo
    wrote on last edited by
    #13

    Easy to see in hindsight Toeava was mishandled. The key is learning from the mistake.

    These days they take young players away as apprentices so that they get a feel for the team without all the pressure. Did so with A Savea and also Aumua and someone else I have forgotten about.

    ACT CrusaderA 1 Reply Last reply
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  • ACT CrusaderA Offline
    ACT CrusaderA Offline
    ACT Crusader
    replied to Damo on last edited by
    #14

    @Damo said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    Easy to see in hindsight Toeava was mishandled. The key is learning from the mistake.

    These days they take young players away as apprentices so that they get a feel for the team without all the pressure. Did so with A Savea and also Aumua and someone else I have forgotten about.

    Brett Cameron....

    I blame Fox

    DamoD StargazerS 2 Replies Last reply
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  • DamoD Offline
    DamoD Offline
    Damo
    replied to ACT Crusader on last edited by
    #15

    @ACT-Crusader said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    @Damo said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    Easy to see in hindsight Toeava was mishandled. The key is learning from the mistake.

    These days they take young players away as apprentices so that they get a feel for the team without all the pressure. Did so with A Savea and also Aumua and someone else I have forgotten about.

    Brett Cameron....

    I blame Fox

    Too soon to say whether that one (and Aumua) will pay dividends.

    I'd say Savea is going pretty well, though that has taken time to flourish.

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  • StargazerS Offline
    StargazerS Offline
    Stargazer
    replied to ACT Crusader on last edited by Stargazer
    #16

    @ACT-Crusader said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    @Damo said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    Easy to see in hindsight Toeava was mishandled. The key is learning from the mistake.

    These days they take young players away as apprentices so that they get a feel for the team without all the pressure. Did so with A Savea and also Aumua and someone else I have forgotten about.

    Brett Cameron....

    I blame Fox

    Brett Cameron was never an All Blacks apprentice. He was in the 51-men squad for the Japan test in Tokyo and that's all.

    A player who has been an apprentice was Atu Moli (for the home part of the 2017 TRC). I think there have been one or two more though.

    All Blacks squad named for 2017 Investec Rugby Championship

    All Blacks squad named for 2017 Investec Rugby Championship

    Key points include the return of prop Nepo Laulala and fullback Nehe Milner-Skudder, while Julian Savea and Matt Todd miss out.

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  • ACT CrusaderA Offline
    ACT CrusaderA Offline
    ACT Crusader
    wrote on last edited by
    #17

    @Damo @Stargazer umm okay.

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  • DiceD Offline
    DiceD Offline
    Dice
    wrote on last edited by
    #18

    Pretty sure Wayne Smith said the same thing, as did Isa Nacewa.

    I remember hearing Kahui say that Ice was the hardest player to defend. I wonder if Conrad thought the same, because Ice use to give him and Nonu fits all the time.

    @canefan said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    @antipodean said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    Easy to believe when you consider how young he was, how shy he was and some of the phenomenal stuff he did on the field. Just amazing talent.

    His year at the Canes he was clearly an amazing talent. A shame he never stayed

    He made Lome Fa'atau look world class that season.

    canefanC 1 Reply Last reply
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  • canefanC Offline
    canefanC Offline
    canefan
    replied to Dice on last edited by
    #19

    @Dice said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    Pretty sure Wayne Smith said the same thing, as did Isa Nacewa.

    I remember hearing Kahui say that Ice was the hardest player to defend. I wonder if Conrad thought the same, because Ice use to give him and Nonu fits all the time.

    @canefan said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    @antipodean said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    Easy to believe when you consider how young he was, how shy he was and some of the phenomenal stuff he did on the field. Just amazing talent.

    His year at the Canes he was clearly an amazing talent. A shame he never stayed

    He made Lome Fa'atau look world class that season.

    I think they moved him too soon. Should have stayed at 15 (and at the Canes, the Blues are player killers!!!)

    ACT CrusaderA 1 Reply Last reply
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  • ACT CrusaderA Offline
    ACT CrusaderA Offline
    ACT Crusader
    replied to canefan on last edited by
    #20

    @canefan all jokes aside, the best footy I saw him play was at 2nd 5 for the Blues. He had matured as a player. He had the speed, vision and kicking game.

    I don’t know how to do it, but if anyone can dig up an old post I think by willie the weka who sat near Graham Henry and co at a Chiefs v Blues game and some of the comments overheard about the Toeava vs Kahui matchup.

    canefanC J 2 Replies Last reply
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  • canefanC Offline
    canefanC Offline
    canefan
    replied to ACT Crusader on last edited by
    #21

    @ACT-Crusader said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    @canefan all jokes aside, the best footy I saw him play was at 2nd 5 for the Blues. He had matured as a player. He had the speed, vision and kicking game.

    I don’t know how to do it, but if anyone can dig up an old post I think by willie the weka who sat near Graham Henry and co at a Chiefs v Blues game and some of the comments overheard about the Toeava vs Kahui matchup.

    What was the general gist?

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  • CanerbryC Offline
    CanerbryC Offline
    Canerbry
    wrote on last edited by
    #22

    All talent, no ticker. Should have been sent to the Crusaders for a season or three.

    BonesB rotatedR antipodeanA 3 Replies Last reply
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  • BonesB Offline
    BonesB Offline
    Bones
    replied to Canerbry on last edited by
    #23

    @Canerbry said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    All talent, no ticker. Should have been sent to the Crusaders for a season or three.

    He would've looked awesome with a mullet. Getting even more injury prone probably wouldn't have helped though.

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  • rotatedR Offline
    rotatedR Offline
    rotated
    replied to Canerbry on last edited by
    #24

    @Canerbry said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    All talent, no ticker. Should have been sent to the Crusaders for a season or three.

    Harsh assessment of Kahui there. Can you remember what WtW heard Ted say about Toeava also?

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  • antipodeanA Offline
    antipodeanA Offline
    antipodean
    replied to Canerbry on last edited by
    #25

    @Canerbry said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    All talent, no ticker. Should have been sent to the Crusaders for a season or three.

    As opposed to the speeding tortoise Caleb Ralph. All ticker, no talent.

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  • rotatedR Offline
    rotatedR Offline
    rotated
    wrote on last edited by
    #26

    From late 2009 onwards Toeava was world class as an outside back. SBW arriving in 2010 hoovered up a lot of the opportunities that probably should have gone his way (bench spot, wing vs Argentina in the QF).

    Unless there was something particularly unique about Toeava there doesn't seem any reason to abandon the "if you are young enough, you are good enough" approach. Here is a list of players capped for the ABs before their 21st brithday:

    Ioane
    Joe Roks
    Cullen
    Lomu
    Cane
    McCaw
    Barrett
    Guildford
    Mauger
    Atinga
    Collins
    Ralph

    Fairly good strike rate.

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  • D Offline
    D Offline
    DMX
    wrote on last edited by
    #27

    I still have to side with Davidav on this one . I would say Toeava had the potential and physical gifts to be a world class player but issues with injury and confidence never allowed him to reach his potential. His error rate was just too high. It was a layup for him to be in the starting XV for the 2011 World Cup and he initially was but I think the cartel simply lost faith in him for the big games.

    nzzpN 1 Reply Last reply
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  • J Offline
    J Offline
    junior
    replied to ACT Crusader on last edited by
    #28

    @ACT-Crusader said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    @canefan all jokes aside, the best footy I saw him play was at 2nd 5 for the Blues. He had matured as a player. He had the speed, vision and kicking game.

    I don’t know how to do it, but if anyone can dig up an old post I think by willie the weka who sat near Graham Henry and co at a Chiefs v Blues game and some of the comments overheard about the Toeava vs Kahui matchup.

    Yep there was a Super Rugby semi final against the Sharks in Durban where he almost single-handedly won the match for the Blues playing at 12 before going off injured (and then the Blues predictable fell apart thereafter).

    I feel like that was an exemplar of his later career - any time he looked like he was about to really fulfil his potential and show people he was the player the Cartel said he was, he'd end up injured.

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  • nzzpN Online
    nzzpN Online
    nzzp
    replied to DMX on last edited by
    #29

    @DMX said in The most talented rugby player Shag has ever seen:

    I still have to side with Davidav on this one . I would say Toeava had the potential and physical gifts to be a world class player but issues with injury and confidence never allowed him to reach his potential. His error rate was just too high. It was a layup for him to be in the starting XV for the 2011 World Cup and he initially was but I think the cartel simply lost faith in him for the big games.

    he's only 33.

    Could have been a starter in 2011, 2015 and 2019 if he'd delivered. A real tragedy that we lost him to NZ rugby.

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  • kiwiinmelbK Offline
    kiwiinmelbK Offline
    kiwiinmelb
    wrote on last edited by
    #30

    The way I remember it , had so many injuries and thrown around in so many positions he never really settled ,

    Hard to knock the ab coaching set up at that time, but I agreee with shag , I don’t think they helped his development not just by playing him early, but thrown straight back in to the deep end at times after injuries , when he clearly didn’t look quite right confidence wise with a lack of rugby behind him.

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