Bledisloe #1
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@Hooroo said in Bledisloe #1:
@Toddy said in Bledisloe #1:
They tackled better than OZ regarding missed tackles but it was still a bad night. Though a red card will do that. ABs made 160/198 and OZ 80/110.
Players that missed more than 3
Read - 22 tackles and 6 misses
BB - 2 tackles and 3 misses
Ioane - 4 tackles and 3 misses
A.Smith - 9 tackles and 3 misses
Whitelock - 17 tackles and 4 misses
Moli - 4 tackles and 3 missesBased on ESPN stats
https://www.espn.com/rugby/playerstats?gameId=294511&league=244293Link not working for me. How many did Mounga miss?
Worked second shot. Made 11 and missed 1
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@Hooroo said in Bledisloe #1:
@Toddy said in Bledisloe #1:
They tackled better than OZ regarding missed tackles but it was still a bad night. Though a red card will do that. ABs made 160/198 and OZ 80/110.
Players that missed more than 3
Read - 22 tackles and 6 misses
BB - 2 tackles and 3 misses
Ioane - 4 tackles and 3 misses
A.Smith - 9 tackles and 3 misses
Whitelock - 17 tackles and 4 misses
Moli - 4 tackles and 3 missesBased on ESPN stats
https://www.espn.com/rugby/playerstats?gameId=294511&league=244293Link not working for me. How many did Mounga miss?
Made 12, missed 0
according ESPN, Opta and SANZAAR stats -
@Stargazer said in Bledisloe #1:
@Hooroo said in Bledisloe #1:
@Toddy said in Bledisloe #1:
They tackled better than OZ regarding missed tackles but it was still a bad night. Though a red card will do that. ABs made 160/198 and OZ 80/110.
Players that missed more than 3
Read - 22 tackles and 6 misses
BB - 2 tackles and 3 misses
Ioane - 4 tackles and 3 misses
A.Smith - 9 tackles and 3 misses
Whitelock - 17 tackles and 4 misses
Moli - 4 tackles and 3 missesBased on ESPN stats
https://www.espn.com/rugby/playerstats?gameId=294511&league=244293Link not working for me. How many did Mounga miss?
Made 12, missed 0
according ESPN, Opta and SANZAAR statsI misread Turnover Conceded as missed tackle on my phone.
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These ratings are a joke. Read gets an 8/10. Goodhue plays 17 minutes and gets 7/10, but Bridge plays 16 minutes and he "didn't see enough to be rated."
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@Yeetyaah said in Bledisloe #1:
These ratings are a joke. Read gets an 8/10. Goodhue plays 17 minutes and gets 7/10, but Bridge plays 16 minutes and he "didn't see enough to be rated."
Maybe the writer is Watching a different game,Or doesn't understand what he is watching.
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When was the last time a team had a player sent off in a test with a significant time to play but still won?
All of the recent examples I can think of involving the ABs have changed the complexion of the game, particularly if it is a forward given their marching orders. I am thinking of:
Andre Venter (South Africa), Eden Park, 1997 - 47 mins, lost 55-35 (was 21-23 at HT)
Danny Grewcock (England), Carisbrook 1998 - 30 mins, lost 64-22
Simon Shaw (England), Eden Park, 2004 - 11 mins, lost 36-12
Jamie Heaslip (Ireland), New Plymouth, 2012 - 16 mins, lost 66-28
Bismarck du Plessis (South Africa), Eden Park, 2013 - 42 mins, lost 29-15 (17-10 at HT)I was at the 3 tests at Eden Park, and I know as a fan, the mood of the crowd changed when it became 15 vs 14.
Other high profile games include Sam Warburton in the 2011 RWC SF.
Much easier to adjust when you are down a back (e.g. SBW, Fall).
Maybe there are some 6N games that went against the norm. I'd be interested to know but I think the outcome is pretty much decided.
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You blokes have given each one of your players and the coaches a deserved serve, which echo a couple of views I have held since the last exodus:
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe #1:
@Mokey said in Bledisloe #1:
a SETTLED backline
Yep that would help, but forwards still need to find a way out of reverse and neutral...gone are the days we deal to teams in 2nd or 3rd gear.
How is Mounga supposed to get his game going starting outside TJ one week, AS next, inside SBW then ALB...then there is our midfield, it looks like the days prior to Nonu-Conrad where I think we went 25 tests without starting the same midfield on consecutive tests.
Our combos should be starting to gel now rather than still looking for them.
I was unconvinced by Richie Mo'unga from the start, was drawn back in during the recent Super series (when he employed "the pass to someone else now and then" tool) but have now reverted to my initial reading of him.
He simply does not have the instincts of Beauden Barrett, or Dan Carter and Andrew Mehrtens before him to spontaneously sight and seize opportunity.
This is the second time in a decade that the selectors have experienced what appears to be a surfeit of first fives - last time they fell over one after the other and Sir Graham had to bring Stephen Donald back from fishing to kick the World Cup winning goal. This time McKenzie is out of the picture and now they are merely coaches with very limited options!
At the same time:
@Mokey said in Bledisloe #1:
@taniwharugby Our musical backline i5 a shambles, and it really doesn't help to have Smith at the end. He is a far better fullback, and needs time to gather a bit of steam now. He can't explode from a standing/few steps start, he just 'dances'.
which is ironic because exciting runner Israel Dagg found himself shifted to the wing to make way for Smith's exciting running eight years ago. In my view that mucked the pair of them up and we didn't see the best of either one. Last night Reece Hodge again displayed the profitability of motoring onto the ball, Smith can do the same thing from full back but it is not so easy from the wing.
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe #1:
The backline issues have been a real problem. ...
...
A number of players in there that have been criticised pillar to post, but it has functioned with the right balance of defence, attack and speed.But every one of our midfielders including ALB have been injured and we simply don’t have the experienced depth that we’ve had in the past to make a replacement. Part of it is selections and part of it is cycle of player movements.
The Carter/Nonu/Smith combination didn’t play every test but they played a hell of a lot together, but when one was out we had someone that was ready made replacement.
This period has been particularly tough.
Tana Umaga's legacy that. It took years to craft it and how useful it turned out to be.
Anton Lienert-Brown is a skilled and focused student who could do with the same level of attention at second five or centre but that has been subordinated to the uncertainty around the fitness of Ryan Crotty and Sonny Bill.
Now all of that is opinion, of course,
The fact is that last night the Wallabies put together the best first half one could hope to see, thundering forward together and keeping the tempo up all the way to beat the mighty All Blacks, the best there is. They did well and can be well pleased with their effort - congratulations to Michael Cheika for persevering and backing his judgement.
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Another point I should make from the Wallabies angle, having watched the replay this morning: how fit does Kerevi look? Not only monstering blokes in contact, but going repeat efforts and both he and Koroibete really helped the forwards in close, where the ABs are not as sharp as they are in the second and wider channels.
Which is kind of what people were asking from the Wobs i.e. stop just chucking it into the first receiver's hands and expecting them to go through the line. Vary the point of attack. Pick n go to suck in the numbers. Standard shit, really...
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@kev the point is that if we had consistent backline selections with the odd change here or there, no matter their age, we would’ve been in a far better situation.
We’ve had ageing players in recent times that had fluctuating form - eg Nonu, Smith, Carter, Jane. These guys didn’t always perform when in black, some of them had howlers, but they were good more often than not and the combinations and experience no doubt helped them perform.
We simply haven’t done this.
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@ACT-Crusader it’s a good point.
For me last night was all about our forwards being dominated. It was 80/20 and not even the best backline can exist with those ratios.
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@kev said in Bledisloe #1:
For me last night was all about our forwards being dominated. It was 80/20 and not even the best backline can exist with those ratios.
Sure, but the backs were giving away plenty of ball too. The 80% possession the Aussies had in the first half was caused by poor options, errors and penalties.
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@E-African-Troll said in Bledisloe #1:
@akan004 said in Bledisloe #1:
his defence as well but still rate him above Perry
In case anyone has doubts about the validity of S Barrett's Red Card:
Hmmm... mitigating factors might play a factor in his sentencing.
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@junior said in Bledisloe #1:
@E-African-Troll said in Bledisloe #1:
@akan004 said in Bledisloe #1:
his defence as well but still rate him above Perry
In case anyone has doubts about the validity of S Barrett's Red Card:
Hmmm... mitigating factors might play a factor in his sentencing.
what mitigating factors? It was stupid and clumsy, and a Red is a valid outcome. I don't think it was malicious or cynical, just very poor technique and decision making
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Let's not forget that Barrett's foul wasn't out of the blue. He did it because we were in desperate straits, and needed to stop them before they scored another try. Tiredness and desperation do that.
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So finally completed my after the match thread read through, as entertaining as ever.
Firstly, the Wallabies played bloody good rugby, they were direct and beat us up in the forwards.
Secondly was watching with an Aussie mate who was wondering whether to place a bet on the Wallabies, as soon as Garces was mentioned before the game I said chuck some money on them as he's a leveller.
I'm not sure if I think Barrett deserved the red for that, but if that's the bar then that's the bar and every player needs to watch themselves. But, did I read someone in the thread say they thought Barrett was having a good game? He did one stand out tackle but was average the rest of the half.
There seems to be some shitfights over the backs but the game was won up front by the Aussies. They had front foot ball all game and denied the ABs ball for crucial parts of the game.
After the Boks game I said that I thought the ABs weren't playing direct deliberately before the RWC and I think this was another game that highlights that. They just seemed to go side to side for most of the game, hell even Laumape didn't run hard and straight for most of the time he was on. I hope that we're just foxing ....
Don't really want to wade into the 10 debate but I don't think Mo'unga was as bad as made out and I don't think Barrett was as relatively good as made out. Firstly on defence since it was a source of debate, Mo'unga makes his tackles and Barrett is still an awesome cover defending and still a bit iffy front on. Secondly they are both prone to stupid kicks. Thirdly, there was barely any structure to the ABs attack aside from the side to side, but I'm not sure if we blame the tactics, the pack, or Mo'unga (or indeed a senior back like Barrett or Smith).
Read and Savea are getting the share of loose forward plaudits but I think Cane put in a decent shift. He was making tackles and being a nuisance in rucks putting his body on the line in a pack that didn't really put their bodies on the line that much. But, we need a frikkin 6, a proper one, or if we are going to play the two 7s lets turn Cane 100% into one and just tell him to smash people. If not then bring back Frizzell or give Hemopo a go (basically anyone from the Highlanders
).So much of the midfield play was ALB getting flat foot ball and trying to run or jink on to some front foot ball. Ioane oddly had a better game than in his last couple but in reality he was mostly starved of decent ball.
One thing I noticed from the Wallabies and credit to them is that they were taking out AB's behind the ruck line as "clean outs". Was annoying me at the time, but if you can get away with it keep doing it.
At the very least I'm now very much looking forward to next weeks match!
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Some interesting ratings and comments on The AB's in this article
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@nzzp said in Bledisloe #1:
@junior said in Bledisloe #1:
@E-African-Troll said in Bledisloe #1:
@akan004 said in Bledisloe #1:
his defence as well but still rate him above Perry
In case anyone has doubts about the validity of S Barrett's Red Card:
Hmmm... mitigating factors might play a factor in his sentencing.
what mitigating factors? It was stupid and clumsy, and a Red is a valid outcome. I don't think it was malicious or cynical, just very poor technique and decision making
I can see them rebuking the following arguments: reactionary contact, ie not in open play with a good chance to line him up; Hooper was falling as contact was made and after Barrett had committed to contact; and initial contact was on the upper back, sliding up to the neck and then head.
Now, at best, I think this may take it down to a 4-week suspension from the staring point of 6. However, I reckon it will stay at 6 weeks in order to send a message before the RWC.
