Bledisloe #1
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe #1:
@Machpants yea who knows...I feel our penalties have been dumber/sillier ones in the past year or so.
SBW and Barrett red cards were so unnecessary and dumb. Shows to me there hasn’t been much learning from past mistakes.
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Problem 1: Lack of flexibility in games. We used to be street smart. We used to be masters at adapting our tactics during the game based on what our opponents were up to.
Then Richie McCaw retired, then Wayne Smith left and that massive strategic advantage disappeared. The team in the last 12 months look unable to react to the unexpected. Kieran Read leads by example wonderfully , but unlike Sean Fitzpatrick or the GOAT, he doesn't speak to the ref much or direct his troops during the later stages of games.
Problem 2: Lack of accuracy and lack of ability to keep the ball in the first half. Ten years ago, most teams would kick a lot in the first half. Lots of teams have reduced their dependency on long punts, we are kicking the ball more. Others sides are able to build an early platform of dominant possession. I can't remember the last time we did that.
Problem 3: Lack of cohesion and energy in the squad. Players used to enjoy playing for the All Blacks and being part of the environment. There was a zip to our play. It is noticeable now that guys like Moody and Franks, even Sam Whitelock seem a lot happier playing for the Crusaders than for the All Blacks. Young coaches like Razor and ROG seem much better at building a rapport with their players and motivating them to excellence than Hansen or Foster.
Problem 4 - Failure to learn from mistakes and react between tests. The stubborness of the coaches is a real weakness. We used to masters at adapting rapidly after setbacks. But we now lack the flexibility and intelligence of old. Scott Barrett's red card was so similar to SBW's one. Did they do any video analysis of Jerome Graces'? Why hasn't ALB been coached not to crab in midfield? Why is Ben Smith still picked at Right Wing when he obviously lacks sufficient gas now? Why wasn't the lack of ball-carriers or dominant tacklers in the forwards if Brodie Retallick is injured anticipated? Can't help thinking that Akira Ioane should have been given more of a chance.
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@ACT-Crusader that backline is full of aged players who haven’t played well for a while or have been injured:
Crotty is like crystal with injuries. Such a risk having a player subject to ongoing concussions,
Naholo is gone but right to ask the question about like for like replacement - size, speed, strength.
ALB - thought he was a bit directionless at centre last night, but with forwards losing contact that doesnt help. Goodhue has been form centre at this level and should be locked in but with ALB as his partner.
Ben Smith hasn’t been the same player this year but could still do Dan Carter.
But it comes back to some basics:
- forwards losing the collision, missed tackles and not generating go forward ball.
- giving the ball back to the opposition with kicks and penalties
If you get those things right last nights backline will work fine.
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They tackled better than OZ regarding missed tackles but it was still a bad night. Though a red card will do that. ABs made 160/198 and OZ 80/110.
Players that missed more than 3
Read - 22 tackles and 6 misses
BB - 2 tackles and 3 misses
Ioane - 4 tackles and 3 misses
A.Smith - 9 tackles and 3 misses
Whitelock - 17 tackles and 4 misses
Moli - 4 tackles and 3 missesBased on ESPN stats
https://www.espn.com/rugby/playerstats?gameId=294511&league=244293 -
The missed tackles were already high before the card. They really started raking up from the 20min mark.
A lot of it is too do with the poor options (kicking from hand and penalties conceded). We gifted possession to the Aussies so we had to do a ridiculous amount of tackling compared to themRead missing 6 is bad. However Read being asked to attempt 28 is the real problem.
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@Toddy said in Bledisloe #1:
They tackled better than OZ regarding missed tackles but it was still a bad night. Though a red card will do that. ABs made 160/198 and OZ 80/110.
Players that missed more than 3
Read - 22 tackles and 6 misses
BB - 2 tackles and 3 misses
Ioane - 4 tackles and 3 misses
A.Smith - 9 tackles and 3 misses
Whitelock - 17 tackles and 4 misses
Moli - 4 tackles and 3 missesBased on ESPN stats
https://www.espn.com/rugby/playerstats?gameId=294511&league=244293Link not working for me. How many did Mounga miss?
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@Hooroo said in Bledisloe #1:
@Toddy said in Bledisloe #1:
They tackled better than OZ regarding missed tackles but it was still a bad night. Though a red card will do that. ABs made 160/198 and OZ 80/110.
Players that missed more than 3
Read - 22 tackles and 6 misses
BB - 2 tackles and 3 misses
Ioane - 4 tackles and 3 misses
A.Smith - 9 tackles and 3 misses
Whitelock - 17 tackles and 4 misses
Moli - 4 tackles and 3 missesBased on ESPN stats
https://www.espn.com/rugby/playerstats?gameId=294511&league=244293Link not working for me. How many did Mounga miss?
Worked second shot. Made 11 and missed 1
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@Hooroo said in Bledisloe #1:
@Toddy said in Bledisloe #1:
They tackled better than OZ regarding missed tackles but it was still a bad night. Though a red card will do that. ABs made 160/198 and OZ 80/110.
Players that missed more than 3
Read - 22 tackles and 6 misses
BB - 2 tackles and 3 misses
Ioane - 4 tackles and 3 misses
A.Smith - 9 tackles and 3 misses
Whitelock - 17 tackles and 4 misses
Moli - 4 tackles and 3 missesBased on ESPN stats
https://www.espn.com/rugby/playerstats?gameId=294511&league=244293Link not working for me. How many did Mounga miss?
Made 12, missed 0
according ESPN, Opta and SANZAAR stats -
@Stargazer said in Bledisloe #1:
@Hooroo said in Bledisloe #1:
@Toddy said in Bledisloe #1:
They tackled better than OZ regarding missed tackles but it was still a bad night. Though a red card will do that. ABs made 160/198 and OZ 80/110.
Players that missed more than 3
Read - 22 tackles and 6 misses
BB - 2 tackles and 3 misses
Ioane - 4 tackles and 3 misses
A.Smith - 9 tackles and 3 misses
Whitelock - 17 tackles and 4 misses
Moli - 4 tackles and 3 missesBased on ESPN stats
https://www.espn.com/rugby/playerstats?gameId=294511&league=244293Link not working for me. How many did Mounga miss?
Made 12, missed 0
according ESPN, Opta and SANZAAR statsI misread Turnover Conceded as missed tackle on my phone.
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These ratings are a joke. Read gets an 8/10. Goodhue plays 17 minutes and gets 7/10, but Bridge plays 16 minutes and he "didn't see enough to be rated."
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@Yeetyaah said in Bledisloe #1:
These ratings are a joke. Read gets an 8/10. Goodhue plays 17 minutes and gets 7/10, but Bridge plays 16 minutes and he "didn't see enough to be rated."
Maybe the writer is Watching a different game,Or doesn't understand what he is watching.
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When was the last time a team had a player sent off in a test with a significant time to play but still won?
All of the recent examples I can think of involving the ABs have changed the complexion of the game, particularly if it is a forward given their marching orders. I am thinking of:
Andre Venter (South Africa), Eden Park, 1997 - 47 mins, lost 55-35 (was 21-23 at HT)
Danny Grewcock (England), Carisbrook 1998 - 30 mins, lost 64-22
Simon Shaw (England), Eden Park, 2004 - 11 mins, lost 36-12
Jamie Heaslip (Ireland), New Plymouth, 2012 - 16 mins, lost 66-28
Bismarck du Plessis (South Africa), Eden Park, 2013 - 42 mins, lost 29-15 (17-10 at HT)I was at the 3 tests at Eden Park, and I know as a fan, the mood of the crowd changed when it became 15 vs 14.
Other high profile games include Sam Warburton in the 2011 RWC SF.
Much easier to adjust when you are down a back (e.g. SBW, Fall).
Maybe there are some 6N games that went against the norm. I'd be interested to know but I think the outcome is pretty much decided.
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You blokes have given each one of your players and the coaches a deserved serve, which echo a couple of views I have held since the last exodus:
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe #1:
@Mokey said in Bledisloe #1:
a SETTLED backline
Yep that would help, but forwards still need to find a way out of reverse and neutral...gone are the days we deal to teams in 2nd or 3rd gear.
How is Mounga supposed to get his game going starting outside TJ one week, AS next, inside SBW then ALB...then there is our midfield, it looks like the days prior to Nonu-Conrad where I think we went 25 tests without starting the same midfield on consecutive tests.
Our combos should be starting to gel now rather than still looking for them.
I was unconvinced by Richie Mo'unga from the start, was drawn back in during the recent Super series (when he employed "the pass to someone else now and then" tool) but have now reverted to my initial reading of him.
He simply does not have the instincts of Beauden Barrett, or Dan Carter and Andrew Mehrtens before him to spontaneously sight and seize opportunity.
This is the second time in a decade that the selectors have experienced what appears to be a surfeit of first fives - last time they fell over one after the other and Sir Graham had to bring Stephen Donald back from fishing to kick the World Cup winning goal. This time McKenzie is out of the picture and now they are merely coaches with very limited options!
At the same time:
@Mokey said in Bledisloe #1:
@taniwharugby Our musical backline i5 a shambles, and it really doesn't help to have Smith at the end. He is a far better fullback, and needs time to gather a bit of steam now. He can't explode from a standing/few steps start, he just 'dances'.
which is ironic because exciting runner Israel Dagg found himself shifted to the wing to make way for Smith's exciting running eight years ago. In my view that mucked the pair of them up and we didn't see the best of either one. Last night Reece Hodge again displayed the profitability of motoring onto the ball, Smith can do the same thing from full back but it is not so easy from the wing.
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe #1:
The backline issues have been a real problem. ...
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A number of players in there that have been criticised pillar to post, but it has functioned with the right balance of defence, attack and speed.But every one of our midfielders including ALB have been injured and we simply don’t have the experienced depth that we’ve had in the past to make a replacement. Part of it is selections and part of it is cycle of player movements.
The Carter/Nonu/Smith combination didn’t play every test but they played a hell of a lot together, but when one was out we had someone that was ready made replacement.
This period has been particularly tough.
Tana Umaga's legacy that. It took years to craft it and how useful it turned out to be.
Anton Lienert-Brown is a skilled and focused student who could do with the same level of attention at second five or centre but that has been subordinated to the uncertainty around the fitness of Ryan Crotty and Sonny Bill.
Now all of that is opinion, of course,
The fact is that last night the Wallabies put together the best first half one could hope to see, thundering forward together and keeping the tempo up all the way to beat the mighty All Blacks, the best there is. They did well and can be well pleased with their effort - congratulations to Michael Cheika for persevering and backing his judgement.
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Another point I should make from the Wallabies angle, having watched the replay this morning: how fit does Kerevi look? Not only monstering blokes in contact, but going repeat efforts and both he and Koroibete really helped the forwards in close, where the ABs are not as sharp as they are in the second and wider channels.
Which is kind of what people were asking from the Wobs i.e. stop just chucking it into the first receiver's hands and expecting them to go through the line. Vary the point of attack. Pick n go to suck in the numbers. Standard shit, really...
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@kev the point is that if we had consistent backline selections with the odd change here or there, no matter their age, we would’ve been in a far better situation.
We’ve had ageing players in recent times that had fluctuating form - eg Nonu, Smith, Carter, Jane. These guys didn’t always perform when in black, some of them had howlers, but they were good more often than not and the combinations and experience no doubt helped them perform.
We simply haven’t done this.
