TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98)
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@nzzp said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@No-Quarter said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Right now Beauden is clearly our best 10 and 15.
If we play him at 15, we have to start a rookie at 10.
If we play him at 10, we start one of our most experienced players at 15.
... and our experienced 15 is coming back from a leg injury. Fitness and pace will come back as he gets more training time.
Jeepers, how many times do you have to see that not happen before you stop believing? Old guys just don't get their pace back during a season. At best he might over a long off-season get a tiny bit of it back, but between now and the Cup there is no chance he is going to get faster.
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@Chester-Draws said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@nzzp said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@No-Quarter said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Right now Beauden is clearly our best 10 and 15.
If we play him at 15, we have to start a rookie at 10.
If we play him at 10, we start one of our most experienced players at 15.
... and our experienced 15 is coming back from a leg injury. Fitness and pace will come back as he gets more training time.
Jeepers, how many times do you have to see that not happen before you stop believing? Old guys just don't get their pace back during a season.
I agree- but this is coming off an injury, so I'm hopeful.
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@taniwharugby Don't think we should worry in the slightest about the lack of cohesion - someone like Rieko probably hasn't played a game since the Blues got knocked out - maybe some club rugby? Even the Crusaders boys hadn't played for three weeks and were playing in new systems and new combinations.
I think it's barely worth questioning people like Read (especially), Franks and Ben Smith - if they're fit, they'll be playing - they're McCaw, Woodcock and Conrad Smith from 2015. Hansen loves experience and he's shown it over and over. When push comes to shove, he'll probably revert to Beauden at 10, even if he perhaps shouldn't (and we may all be on the Mo'unga bandwagon again a few weeks from now).
We discussed last year that - man for man - the current team simply isn't as good as the 2015 one. But, it is still good enough to win the RWC if it plays to its potential - though that might not be true without Retallick. He is the last person I wanted to lose.
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@Chris-B but we dont really have a McCaw, DC, Nonu or Conrad from 2015...
anyways, stop it, you are making me sound like I think its all doom and gloom!
I know they are pretty good at getting the boys firing at the right time, but to me at least in 2015 there were stil signs they were on the right path, right now, I think they are lost, and struggling to find the path...
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@Chris-B Yes, the lack of the June internationals may have skewed our perceptions. Those games are usually where the engines are run in. Though I guess you could argue that applies to everyone else in the RC as well.
The imminent return of Scott Barrett gives cause for hope. The news about Retallick this morning (no “structural damage”) is better. Our reserve front row was extremely impressive last night. The Mounga-Barrett experiment may be worth persevering with (though like others, I agree Ben Smith is better at fullback). And there were encouraging signs in the second half when Aaron Smith, ALB and Dan Coles were injected.
The ABs’ stuttering start, plus the Wallabies’ more convincing display against Argentina, has given the Aussies a sniff for the Bledisloe Cup and confidence is returning in Australia. However, that is not such a bad thing for the ABs as it reduces the chance of complacency going into the Perth game. And keep in mind, Savea and Cane will be back for that.
So the glass looks more half full than half empty today.
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@booboo said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Jaguares4real said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Clearout was fine
First time I've seen the vision.
You have an interesting idea about what constitutes "fine". Cleanout was the very definition of illegal.
He is perhaps slightly in the side, but nothing out of the ordinary. If you PK'ed that for in the side the game would be a very long one.
Certainly there is no foul play in the clip as people on the radio are suggesting.
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He said midfielder Sonny Bill Williams, who got through 60 minutes without further injury apart a scratched nose which required a few stitches, would not travel to Perth, rather he would be available for Counties' next two games before the return test at Eden Park on August 18. Highlanders first-five Josh Ioane would also play provincial rugby, Hansen said. -
@KiwiMurph said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
He said midfielder Sonny Bill Williams, who got through 60 minutes without further injury apart a scratched nose which required a few stitches, would not travel to Perth, rather he would be available for Counties' next two games before the return test at Eden Park on August 18.
Highlanders first-five Josh Ioane would also play provincial rugby, Hansen said.
Oooh SBW dropped, finally! But
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@Machpants said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Oooh SBW dropped, finally!
Give him a break - he scratched his nose! You can't expect him to play with that! He'll look terrible, and what about his hair- it got all messed up as well.
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@KiwiMurph so he needs more rugby, lets send him down to a comp we dont rate and and let him run around there for 2 weeks.
That confirms the 1 midfield change I thought was coming.
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@KiwiMurph so how would that benefit us (or I guess who)
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@KiwiMurph said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Frank said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Small point - having RM and BB both starting gives us an extra space on the subs bench.
As would starting Cane and Savea...
Indeed. Allows us to stack the bench with real impact players rather than worrying so much about utility value.
I think Hansen is hoping Frizell magically starts killing it so he doesn't have to deal with the drama of moving Read to 6.
I'd like to see Jacobsen at 6 again.
On a very positive note, we might get to see the ALB-Goodhue combo play a whole test match.
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@Chris-B said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@taniwharugby Don't think we should worry in the slightest about the lack of cohesion - someone like Rieko probably hasn't played a game since the Blues got knocked out - maybe some club rugby? Even the Crusaders boys hadn't played for three weeks and were playing in new systems and new combinations.
The Boks had even less game time though, since few played last week, and they didn't make the semi-finals at all.
Nor was their team any less short in systems and combinations.
I think it's barely worth questioning people like Read (especially), Franks and Ben Smith - if they're fit, they'll be playing - they're McCaw, Woodcock and Conrad Smith from 2015. Hansen loves experience and he's shown it over and over. When push comes to shove, he'll probably revert to Beauden at 10, even if he perhaps shouldn't (and we may all be on the Mo'unga bandwagon again a few weeks from now).
That is exactly what was said in 1991. The old guys would see us through, even though some younger ones were in much better form. Except that was a lesson in why you can't just rely on experience. If the players are too slow, then they are too slow, no matter how experienced they are. It's not like we have been let down by young players when they have made the various Cup squads.
McCaw, Woodcock and Conrad Smith were all playing well enough in 2015. There was no-one sufficiently better, all around the field, to be clearly superior, and the edge in experience was useful -- more so, since on that occasion we were going to be defeated by the pressure, not ability. But this year ALB is clearly superior to SBW, Ardie is streets ahead of Read and I didn't even know Franks was playing last night, so invisible is he in general play.
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@Chester-Draws said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@taniwharugby Don't think we should worry in the slightest about the lack of cohesion - someone like Rieko probably hasn't played a game since the Blues got knocked out - maybe some club rugby? Even the Crusaders boys hadn't played for three weeks and were playing in new systems and new combinations.
The Boks had even less game time though, since few played last week, and they didn't make the semi-finals at all.
Nor was their team any less short in systems and combinations.
I think it's barely worth questioning people like Read (especially), Franks and Ben Smith - if they're fit, they'll be playing - they're McCaw, Woodcock and Conrad Smith from 2015. Hansen loves experience and he's shown it over and over. When push comes to shove, he'll probably revert to Beauden at 10, even if he perhaps shouldn't (and we may all be on the Mo'unga bandwagon again a few weeks from now).
That is exactly what was said in 1991. The old guys would see us through, even though some younger ones were in much better form. Except that was a lesson in why you can't just rely on experience. If the players are too slow, then they are too slow, no matter how experienced they are. It's not like we have been let down by young players when they have made the various Cup squads.
McCaw, Woodcock and Conrad Smith were all playing well enough in 2015. There was no-one sufficiently better, all around the field, to be clearly superior, and the edge in experience was useful -- more so, since on that occasion we were going to be defeated by the pressure, not ability. But this year ALB is clearly superior to SBW, Ardie is streets ahead of Read and I didn't even know Franks was playing last night, so invisible is he in general play.
Who could have been better in that 91 team? I just think they weren't good enough and that coaching bullshit didn't help.
Tight 5 was solid enough. M Jones absent because he didn't play on Sunday so nothing to be done there. Maybe AJ Whetton could have been replaced, but Zinzan was there over Buck.
Backline was best 9, best 10 (albeit injured and no proper backup - Mannix lol), Bernie M was ordinary at 12 but Johnny the Shoe had gone to league (bastard), best 13 (Innes), best wingers (Kirwan and Timu - maybe Inga but he was still raw as f) and best available FB due to Gallagher and Ridge pissing off to League and Wright being injured.
The biggest problem now imho is not old players but tactics and combinations. Foster's backline has been pants for ages (when did they last execute a decent set piece move) and the error rate and discipline have been terrible. I think the team that went out last night is good enough to win the RWC (and of course adding Cane, Ardie and Laumape) but not if they play like that.
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