Bledisloe I
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@kiwimurph said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@kiwiinmelb said in Bledisloe I:
Welcome to country is an aboriginal tradition where an elder welcomes visitors to their land .
Doesn’t bother me , actually prefer it to that cheesy waltzing Matilda thing they used to do .
Not it isn't. It's a "tradition" invented in 1976. A
"tradition" that they charge good money for. But regardless, how is it relevant or appropriate for a rugby game?And the All Blacks didn't perform a haka on home soil until 1987 wasn't it. And how relevant or appropriate is a haka for a rugby game?
Theyd been doing it abroad for close to 100 years and it was the team doing it. Given the highly physical nature of rugby it's far more relevant than someone crapping on behind a microphone.
And that doesn't even get to the entertainment aspect. The Haka is awesome to watch. One of my greatest rugby experiences was seeing Tonga and the ABs doing their war dances simultaneously during a thunder storm in 2003. It was epic. It was perfect for the occasion. Are you telling me some old guy who has been paid thousands of dollars to speak at a mic is comparable. People just shift in their seats and look at their watches. It's a joke.
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Cheika "We've got depth, we were able to lose two front rowers during the week (Scott Sio and Taniela Tupou) and still be able to put together a competitive front row," he said.
Sorry did you watch a different set of scrums than I did? He's in cloud cuckoo land, alternate facts galore!
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I noticed DHP was yanked off the field immediately following Beaudie's soccer display - he dropped the pass.
The switch to the commentary box just had a defeated Chieka massaging the bridge of his nose.
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For what it's worth my wife's mothers side is from the Torres Straights which is indigenous to Australia, though not Aboriginal. I quizzed her on the "welcome to country" and she said she likes that they acknowledge/include indigenous culture as part of the pre-match build up, but also finds it pretty awkward.
Said there's a rich tapestry of culture to tap into with both Aboriginals and in Queensland Torres Straight Islanders dating back tens of thousands of years, so someone just talking behind a mic really doesn't do it justice. If it was up to her there'd be a brief introduction to one of the local cultural groups, then a 3 - 5 minute performance leading into the Anthems.
I would also stress that she doesn't speak for all Indigenous Australians as they are not a homogeneous group - no doubt some love it and some hate it (yes I actually have to point that out these days).
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So maybe the intent is good but the execution not so much? Seems like they are really trying but it comes across a bit stilted and not overly great to watch. Some more performance aspects to it might make it more enjoyable to watch, and still convey the cultural importance?
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Just in case we need more hilarity, the journalist's rugby journalist Greg Growden calls for 'Wayne Bennett or Craig Bellamy-like figure across from the rugby league ranks' to replace Chieka. Yeah, that should fix their lineout and scrum.
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@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
I'm not sure why it's a big deal, just don't watch it if you're not interested (like haka and anthems). It's a few minutes out of a nearly 3 hour game and pre match.
Surely the question is why it is necessary and why the ARFU are paying tens of thousands of dollars for something that is pretty awkward for all concerned. Just because it is easily avoided is a pretty ordinary reason for having it there.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
I'm not sure why it's a big deal, just don't watch it if you're not interested (like haka and anthems). It's a few minutes out of a nearly 3 hour game and pre match.
Surely the question is why it is necessary and why the ARFU are paying tens of thousands of dollars for something that is pretty awkward for all concerned. Just because it is easily avoided is a pretty ordinary reason for having it there.
It's necessary because the ARU have deemed it necessary - and it's in line with a general trend in Australia in acknowledging the indigenous people(s).
How do you know the ARU paid 10s of thousands of dollars for that?
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@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
I'm not sure why it's a big deal, just don't watch it if you're not interested (like haka and anthems). It's a few minutes out of a nearly 3 hour game and pre match.
Surely the question is why it is necessary and why the ARFU are paying tens of thousands of dollars for something that is pretty awkward for all concerned. Just because it is easily avoided is a pretty ordinary reason for having it there.
It's necessary because the ARU have deemed it necessary - and it's in line with a general trend in Australia in acknowledging the indigenous people(s).
How do you know the ARU paid 10s of thousands of dollars for that?
How does that make it necessary? What bizarre logic.
How much do you actually know about Welcome to Country. They charge big bucks for this "tradition". Look it up.
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@paekakboyz said in Bledisloe I:
So maybe the intent is good but the execution not so much? Seems like they are really trying but it comes across a bit stilted and not overly great to watch. Some more performance aspects to it might make it more enjoyable to watch, and still convey the cultural importance?
Totally agree with this. Some form of involvement would be great. The indigenous jerseys are also really cool. But WTC is embarrassing. There's nothing traditional about it and it just doesn't work in any sense. Surely there are other and better ways of presenting Aboriginal and TSI culture?
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
I'm not sure why it's a big deal, just don't watch it if you're not interested (like haka and anthems). It's a few minutes out of a nearly 3 hour game and pre match.
Surely the question is why it is necessary and why the ARFU are paying tens of thousands of dollars for something that is pretty awkward for all concerned. Just because it is easily avoided is a pretty ordinary reason for having it there.
It's necessary because the ARU have deemed it necessary - and it's in line with a general trend in Australia in acknowledging the indigenous people(s).
How do you know the ARU paid 10s of thousands of dollars for that?
How does that make it necessary? What bizarre logic.
How much do you actually know about Welcome to Country. They charge big bucks for this "tradition". Look it up.
In Sydney I think they cap it at $400-$600. The local group did it for free at the film school I used to work at as we were an educational institution. The elders who did it when I worked up round M4L's region used to do it for transport and food. I don't know what kind of deal that the ARU has worked out, and I'm happy to be corrected, but 10s of thousands seems high.
Regarding necessary, nothing is necessary before the start of a rugby match (anthems, haka) aside from the players walking out and the whistle blowing for kick off. The point isn't whether it's necessary or not, it's whether the ARU want to have it or not and they appear to want to.
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@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
I'm not sure why it's a big deal, just don't watch it if you're not interested (like haka and anthems). It's a few minutes out of a nearly 3 hour game and pre match.
Surely the question is why it is necessary and why the ARFU are paying tens of thousands of dollars for something that is pretty awkward for all concerned. Just because it is easily avoided is a pretty ordinary reason for having it there.
It's necessary because the ARU have deemed it necessary - and it's in line with a general trend in Australia in acknowledging the indigenous people(s).
How do you know the ARU paid 10s of thousands of dollars for that?
How does that make it necessary? What bizarre logic.
How much do you actually know about Welcome to Country. They charge big bucks for this "tradition". Look it up.
In Sydney I think they cap it at $400-$600. The local group did it for free at the film school I used to work at as we were an educational institution. The elders who did it when I worked up round M4L's region used to do it for transport and food. I don't know what kind of deal that the ARU has worked out, and I'm happy to be corrected, but 10s of thousands seems high.
Regarding necessary, nothing is necessary before the start of a rugby match (anthems, haka) aside from the players walking out and the whistle blowing for kick off. The point isn't whether it's necessary or not, it's whether the ARU want to have it or not and they appear to want to.
For every home match, I'd say 10s of 1000s is pretty close to the mark. I doubt very much the ARFU is getting a discount. An activist was paid $10,500 just to open parliament in 2013.
Again, so what if the ARU want to? That doesn't make it right or necessary. That is a nothing argument.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
I'm not sure why it's a big deal, just don't watch it if you're not interested (like haka and anthems). It's a few minutes out of a nearly 3 hour game and pre match.
Surely the question is why it is necessary and why the ARFU are paying tens of thousands of dollars for something that is pretty awkward for all concerned. Just because it is easily avoided is a pretty ordinary reason for having it there.
It's necessary because the ARU have deemed it necessary - and it's in line with a general trend in Australia in acknowledging the indigenous people(s).
How do you know the ARU paid 10s of thousands of dollars for that?
How does that make it necessary? What bizarre logic.
How much do you actually know about Welcome to Country. They charge big bucks for this "tradition". Look it up.
In Sydney I think they cap it at $400-$600. The local group did it for free at the film school I used to work at as we were an educational institution. The elders who did it when I worked up round M4L's region used to do it for transport and food. I don't know what kind of deal that the ARU has worked out, and I'm happy to be corrected, but 10s of thousands seems high.
Regarding necessary, nothing is necessary before the start of a rugby match (anthems, haka) aside from the players walking out and the whistle blowing for kick off. The point isn't whether it's necessary or not, it's whether the ARU want to have it or not and they appear to want to.
For every home match, I'd say 10s of 1000s is pretty close to the mark. I doubt very much the ARFU is getting a discount. An activist was paid $10,500 just to open parliament in 2013.
Again, so what if the ARU want to? That doesn't make it right or necessary. That is a nothing argument.
So you actually have no idea how much the ARU are paying but speculating based on the opening of parliament in 2013.
I don't know what kind of argument you want, if the ARU want to do it then that's up to them. If they find value in it for them they'll do it. As I said, it's irrelevant if it's necessary or not if the ARU want to do it. I assume the ARU would make the 'argument' that they want to acknowledge the indigenous people of Australia and Welcome to Country is a common way of doing that.
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@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
I'm not sure why it's a big deal, just don't watch it if you're not interested (like haka and anthems). It's a few minutes out of a nearly 3 hour game and pre match.
Surely the question is why it is necessary and why the ARFU are paying tens of thousands of dollars for something that is pretty awkward for all concerned. Just because it is easily avoided is a pretty ordinary reason for having it there.
It's necessary because the ARU have deemed it necessary - and it's in line with a general trend in Australia in acknowledging the indigenous people(s).
How do you know the ARU paid 10s of thousands of dollars for that?
How does that make it necessary? What bizarre logic.
How much do you actually know about Welcome to Country. They charge big bucks for this "tradition". Look it up.
In Sydney I think they cap it at $400-$600. The local group did it for free at the film school I used to work at as we were an educational institution. The elders who did it when I worked up round M4L's region used to do it for transport and food. I don't know what kind of deal that the ARU has worked out, and I'm happy to be corrected, but 10s of thousands seems high.
Regarding necessary, nothing is necessary before the start of a rugby match (anthems, haka) aside from the players walking out and the whistle blowing for kick off. The point isn't whether it's necessary or not, it's whether the ARU want to have it or not and they appear to want to.
For every home match, I'd say 10s of 1000s is pretty close to the mark. I doubt very much the ARFU is getting a discount. An activist was paid $10,500 just to open parliament in 2013.
Again, so what if the ARU want to? That doesn't make it right or necessary. That is a nothing argument.
So you actually have no idea how much the ARU are paying but speculating based on the opening of parliament in 2013.
I don't know what kind of argument you want, if the ARU want to do it then that's up to them. If they find value in it for them they'll do it. As I said, it's irrelevant if it's necessary or not if the ARU want to do it. I assume the ARU would make the 'argument' that they want to acknowledge the indigenous people of Australia and Welcome to Country is a common way of doing that.
And why would that not be proper evidence to base that assumption on? Are you seriously going to claim that the ARU are getting a discount?
Again, just because the ARU, for whatever reason, has deemed this to be something necessary to have before games does not mean this is something that can't be discussed or disliked. Or is the ARU above reproach on everything and should never be questioned? That's an interesting position to take.
It's like saying nobody should be able to complain about Justin Marshall's commentating because you can turn off the sound if you want and Sky thinks he's awesome and should be there and that decision just has to be accepted.
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@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
I'm not sure why it's a big deal, just don't watch it if you're not interested (like haka and anthems). It's a few minutes out of a nearly 3 hour game and pre match.
Surely the question is why it is necessary and why the ARFU are paying tens of thousands of dollars for something that is pretty awkward for all concerned. Just because it is easily avoided is a pretty ordinary reason for having it there.
It's necessary because the ARU have deemed it necessary - and it's in line with a general trend in Australia in acknowledging the indigenous people(s).
How do you know the ARU paid 10s of thousands of dollars for that?
How does that make it necessary? What bizarre logic.
How much do you actually know about Welcome to Country. They charge big bucks for this "tradition". Look it up.
In Sydney I think they cap it at $400-$600. The local group did it for free at the film school I used to work at as we were an educational institution. The elders who did it when I worked up round M4L's region used to do it for transport and food. I don't know what kind of deal that the ARU has worked out, and I'm happy to be corrected, but 10s of thousands seems high.
Regarding necessary, nothing is necessary before the start of a rugby match (anthems, haka) aside from the players walking out and the whistle blowing for kick off. The point isn't whether it's necessary or not, it's whether the ARU want to have it or not and they appear to want to.
For every home match, I'd say 10s of 1000s is pretty close to the mark. I doubt very much the ARFU is getting a discount. An activist was paid $10,500 just to open parliament in 2013.
Again, so what if the ARU want to? That doesn't make it right or necessary. That is a nothing argument.
So you actually have no idea how much the ARU are paying but speculating based on the opening of parliament in 2013.
I don't know what kind of argument you want, if the ARU want to do it then that's up to them. If they find value in it for them they'll do it. As I said, it's irrelevant if it's necessary or not if the ARU want to do it. I assume the ARU would make the 'argument' that they want to acknowledge the indigenous people of Australia and Welcome to Country is a common way of doing that.
I think the argument being made is that sports as a product is based on entertainment, so keeping in line with that any pre-match build up should at the very least have some entertainment factor - there's lots of ways to include indigenous culture in this while providing that. Fans that put time/money into the game have every right to critique it.
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This thread neatly sums up just how fucked Australian rugby is. Pre-game it was pages of us taking the piss out of each other, divided neatly along provincial lines, and discussing 20 year old backlines.
Post game a stupid discussion about 2 minutes of the pre-game.
We just don't respect the Wallabies any more. I wonder if the players do?
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
I'm not sure why it's a big deal, just don't watch it if you're not interested (like haka and anthems). It's a few minutes out of a nearly 3 hour game and pre match.
Surely the question is why it is necessary and why the ARFU are paying tens of thousands of dollars for something that is pretty awkward for all concerned. Just because it is easily avoided is a pretty ordinary reason for having it there.
It's necessary because the ARU have deemed it necessary - and it's in line with a general trend in Australia in acknowledging the indigenous people(s).
How do you know the ARU paid 10s of thousands of dollars for that?
How does that make it necessary? What bizarre logic.
How much do you actually know about Welcome to Country. They charge big bucks for this "tradition". Look it up.
In Sydney I think they cap it at $400-$600. The local group did it for free at the film school I used to work at as we were an educational institution. The elders who did it when I worked up round M4L's region used to do it for transport and food. I don't know what kind of deal that the ARU has worked out, and I'm happy to be corrected, but 10s of thousands seems high.
Regarding necessary, nothing is necessary before the start of a rugby match (anthems, haka) aside from the players walking out and the whistle blowing for kick off. The point isn't whether it's necessary or not, it's whether the ARU want to have it or not and they appear to want to.
For every home match, I'd say 10s of 1000s is pretty close to the mark. I doubt very much the ARFU is getting a discount. An activist was paid $10,500 just to open parliament in 2013.
Again, so what if the ARU want to? That doesn't make it right or necessary. That is a nothing argument.
So you actually have no idea how much the ARU are paying but speculating based on the opening of parliament in 2013.
I don't know what kind of argument you want, if the ARU want to do it then that's up to them. If they find value in it for them they'll do it. As I said, it's irrelevant if it's necessary or not if the ARU want to do it. I assume the ARU would make the 'argument' that they want to acknowledge the indigenous people of Australia and Welcome to Country is a common way of doing that.
And why would that not be proper evidence to base that assumption on? Are you seriously going to claim that the ARU are getting a discount?
Again, just because the ARU, for whatever reason, has deemed this to be something necessary to have before games does not mean this is something that can't be discussed or disliked. Or is the ARU above reproach on everything and should never be questioned? That's an interesting position to take.
Who has said that?
As for your first point, of course that is not proper evidence, it's was a payment to open parliament in Canberra which isn't a rugby match in Sydney. As I said earlier the fees in Sydney are capped at $600 if the welcome is in Sydney (I think the Metro Aboriginal Land Council are the group that provides it).
