Bledisloe I
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@stargazer said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel Again, things change. It doesn't have to be an (old) existing tradition. Why can't they start a new one? You find it bullshit; they obviously don't. It's not up to us outsiders to judge what's relevant to the indigenous peoples of another country. Cultural expressions can be anything: dance, song, poems, or a "welcome".
I agree with this. Traditions have to start somewhere.
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@stargazer said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel Again, things change. It doesn't have to be an (old) existing tradition. Why can't they start a new one? You find it bullshit; they obviously don't. It's not up to us outsiders to judge what's relevant to the indigenous peoples of another country. Cultural expressions can be anything: dance, song, poems, or a "welcome".
Who is they? And how is it relevant to a rugby game now?
And how is it comparable to the Haka. That is a traditional war dance that is a big part of Maori culture. In other words it has centuries of cultural relevance. How is some old dude rambling in front of a microphone culturally relevant to Aboriginals?
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@wreck-diver said in Bledisloe I:
@hydro11 @booboo The Aussie lineout has been a problem for a couple of years they don't know who to pick at 6, 7 & 8 which is screwing up their options at the lineout.
Sir Stephen's only seriously taxing piece of pre-World Cup homework is how to replace the Ma'a Nonu-Conrad Smith-Cory Jane+Occasional Supplements machine which motored along out there, all low maintenance excellence, purring like a Jaguar XJ6 for so long - yet he has perhaps three combinations of capable individuals to test and switch about and the time to get it right.
Michael Cheika has to work out how to get the ball from the sideline in a straight line to to No 2 or No 5, how to have the front row stay bound more often than not, a cohesive mid field which can communicate and execute conventional plays; maintenance of a reliable defensive line that rarely fails; having a back three which can communicate and reliably judge when to kick and when to run - together; how to tackle; how to catch and pass; and that, when you run out of ideas out wide, a half-hearted rugby league dribble into a forest of legs in front of you is the fast route to seconds next week.
Somewhere in there he must also turn his attention to 6, 7 and 8 and the fact that Gavin, Kefu, Poidevin, Wilson and Cockbain left 20 to 30 years ago and haven't been replaced. Michael Cheika himself became one of the best club men in those positions, playing for and captaining the premium club - industrious, mean, high mongrel quotient, physical - and he would have to be tearing his hair out over this alone. His assistant coach has a similar problem - how to find a competent, talented replacement after his departure from first five eleven years ago.
Cheika remains the man for the job in my mind because he has the tough minded temperament to keep his greatest threats at bay, the ARU and the ever present interstate internecine warfare. They need him more than he needs them, and he has the backing of the politically most powerful putsch protecting him. I think he is making progress against the impossibility which he faced when he took on the job and I do not see losses against better unions as the end of days.
I have noted here before that Sir Graham with the All Blacks post 2007, and Eddie Maguire / Mick Malthouse with their 10 year plan of 2000 for Collingwood demonstrated that it takes a decade of focused, purposeful planning to attain success yet the only party in Australian rugby that misses these glowing examples is the board in charge!
An observation about "modern new rugby" - the first two All Black tries were from the old fashioned fellas' handbook - pass early, pass short and back up, back up, back up; for BBBR's stroll over he had a winger outside him and a centre and scrum-half inside all of whom were well clear. Barrett's try came from a similarly old fashioned take-it-through-with-short-gentle-kicks off the inside foot three times and fall on it (a coach back in the last century had backs and forwards all go through a session of that at every training and I well remember it would work a couple of times through the forwards alone every season - I doubt they ever coach it in Australia now).
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Welcome to country is an aboriginal tradition where an elder welcomes visitors to their land .
Doesn’t bother me , actually prefer it to that cheesy waltzing Matilda thing they used to do .
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@kiwiinmelb said in Bledisloe I:
Welcome to country is an aboriginal tradition where an elder welcomes visitors to their land .
Doesn’t bother me , actually prefer it to that cheesy waltzing Matilda thing they used to do .
That sucked arse . I miss the kids on bmx bikes in kangaroo and cockatoo outfits riding around the stadium . I hope one day they bring that back .
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@kiwiinmelb said in Bledisloe I:
Welcome to country is an aboriginal tradition where an elder welcomes visitors to their land .
Doesn’t bother me , actually prefer it to that cheesy waltzing Matilda thing they used to do .
Yep, I was thinking that listening to John Williamson sing out of tune is much more painful.
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@bovidae said in Bledisloe I:
@kiwiinmelb said in Bledisloe I:
Welcome to country is an aboriginal tradition where an elder welcomes visitors to their land .
Doesn’t bother me , actually prefer it to that cheesy waltzing Matilda thing they used to do .
Yep, I was thinking that listening to John Williamson sing out of tune is much more painful.
I don’t know, a crowd of Aussies singing a song about a man getting chased by the authorities for doing something illegal with a sheep seems a bit odd considering the shit they give us about more or less the same thing.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Bledisloe I:
Welcome to country is an aboriginal tradition where an elder welcomes visitors to their land .
Doesn’t bother me , actually prefer it to that cheesy waltzing Matilda thing they used to do .
Not it isn't. It's a "tradition" invented in 1976. A
"tradition" that they charge good money for. But regardless, how is it relevant or appropriate for a rugby game? -
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@kiwiinmelb said in Bledisloe I:
Welcome to country is an aboriginal tradition where an elder welcomes visitors to their land .
Doesn’t bother me , actually prefer it to that cheesy waltzing Matilda thing they used to do .
Not it isn't. It's a "tradition" invented in 1976. A
"tradition" that they charge good money for. But regardless, how is it relevant or appropriate for a rugby game?And the All Blacks didn't perform a haka on home soil until 1987 wasn't it. And how relevant or appropriate is a haka for a rugby game?
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@kiwimurph said in Bledisloe I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@kiwiinmelb said in Bledisloe I:
Welcome to country is an aboriginal tradition where an elder welcomes visitors to their land .
Doesn’t bother me , actually prefer it to that cheesy waltzing Matilda thing they used to do .
Not it isn't. It's a "tradition" invented in 1976. A
"tradition" that they charge good money for. But regardless, how is it relevant or appropriate for a rugby game?And the All Blacks didn't perform a haka on home soil until 1987 wasn't it. And how relevant or appropriate is a haka for a rugby game?
Theyd been doing it abroad for close to 100 years and it was the team doing it. Given the highly physical nature of rugby it's far more relevant than someone crapping on behind a microphone.
And that doesn't even get to the entertainment aspect. The Haka is awesome to watch. One of my greatest rugby experiences was seeing Tonga and the ABs doing their war dances simultaneously during a thunder storm in 2003. It was epic. It was perfect for the occasion. Are you telling me some old guy who has been paid thousands of dollars to speak at a mic is comparable. People just shift in their seats and look at their watches. It's a joke.
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Cheika "We've got depth, we were able to lose two front rowers during the week (Scott Sio and Taniela Tupou) and still be able to put together a competitive front row," he said.
Sorry did you watch a different set of scrums than I did? He's in cloud cuckoo land, alternate facts galore!
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I noticed DHP was yanked off the field immediately following Beaudie's soccer display - he dropped the pass.
The switch to the commentary box just had a defeated Chieka massaging the bridge of his nose.
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For what it's worth my wife's mothers side is from the Torres Straights which is indigenous to Australia, though not Aboriginal. I quizzed her on the "welcome to country" and she said she likes that they acknowledge/include indigenous culture as part of the pre-match build up, but also finds it pretty awkward.
Said there's a rich tapestry of culture to tap into with both Aboriginals and in Queensland Torres Straight Islanders dating back tens of thousands of years, so someone just talking behind a mic really doesn't do it justice. If it was up to her there'd be a brief introduction to one of the local cultural groups, then a 3 - 5 minute performance leading into the Anthems.
I would also stress that she doesn't speak for all Indigenous Australians as they are not a homogeneous group - no doubt some love it and some hate it (yes I actually have to point that out these days).
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So maybe the intent is good but the execution not so much? Seems like they are really trying but it comes across a bit stilted and not overly great to watch. Some more performance aspects to it might make it more enjoyable to watch, and still convey the cultural importance?
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Just in case we need more hilarity, the journalist's rugby journalist Greg Growden calls for 'Wayne Bennett or Craig Bellamy-like figure across from the rugby league ranks' to replace Chieka. Yeah, that should fix their lineout and scrum.
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@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
I'm not sure why it's a big deal, just don't watch it if you're not interested (like haka and anthems). It's a few minutes out of a nearly 3 hour game and pre match.
Surely the question is why it is necessary and why the ARFU are paying tens of thousands of dollars for something that is pretty awkward for all concerned. Just because it is easily avoided is a pretty ordinary reason for having it there.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Bledisloe I:
@nepia said in Bledisloe I:
I'm not sure why it's a big deal, just don't watch it if you're not interested (like haka and anthems). It's a few minutes out of a nearly 3 hour game and pre match.
Surely the question is why it is necessary and why the ARFU are paying tens of thousands of dollars for something that is pretty awkward for all concerned. Just because it is easily avoided is a pretty ordinary reason for having it there.
It's necessary because the ARU have deemed it necessary - and it's in line with a general trend in Australia in acknowledging the indigenous people(s).
How do you know the ARU paid 10s of thousands of dollars for that?
