All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3
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@KiwiPie said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Glass half empty - the series showed how reliant we are on certain key players, those players are getting older and a couple of forward injuries would expose our lack of depth.
You could say the same about the Lions. There was a massive step down from the test side to the dirt trackers.
For us, I'm pretty relaxed. Our tight forwards really stood up: arguably won the forward battle.
Codie Taylor and Joe Moody were a long way away two years ago. None of them are older than 29 (Taylor), and still have a few years in the legs. All will be better for that experience.Again - we lost some key experience out there, fronted against the cream of the NH and failed to win 3-0 by some 'interesting' refereeing decisions and not taking some chances we would have previously. Give them more time in camp and I'm comfortable we'll keep stepping up.
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@DMX said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
I find this one strange as well. I think we as fans ( including Mex) are fully within our rights to blast the ref and say he cost us the series. I think the players and coaches should look at themselves and figure out how to take the ref out the game and that's exactly what they are doing. Not like the ABs were terrible, Poite and SBW hurt them bad. I thought by 3rd test they figured out how to beat rush defense but execution was poor but easily fixable. The result is what is but I think things like blaming Hansen for substituting Half back which the ABs have done for at least 13years is just silly.
I'm in the "ref didn't cost us the game camp" but in no way I'm of the opinion that criticism of his 78th min decisions should be shut down. That was the worst refereeing moment I can remember.
I don't think he 'cost us the game' because I only give Beauden a 60% chance of slotting that the way he was kicking. Where as I give Julian as 100% costing us a try and I think Beauden has already blown a 95% gettable kick. Then add in the cumulative 50%ers that were blown periodically through the match.
Up until 78 mins I thought Poite was good.
But that decision (and process) was disgraceful.
I now really doubt his moral fibre. He made a correct decision in real time, it was technically harsh on the guilty party but correct. He then allowed himself to go to the TMO to check foul play so that his already made decision could be taken away from his responsibility if possible, it couldn't, but then he allowed Garces to change his mind (incorrectly). He tried really, really, really hard to not have his decision be the 'series-deciding decision'. Very weak.
I would think that would set alarm bells off in WR Refereeing HQ. This wasn't a fast real time mistake, it was a failure of courage.
However I do not currently have faith in the Referring HQ. Their treatment of Joubert was a disgrace to the sport when they hung him out to dry after he made a brave but incorrect decision in the RWC in very similar circumstances.
To be contradictory, I do find the analysising of every single refereeing decision in a game on social media etc to be pointless. It's a quick game with decisions made in real time, fans need to just get on with it. Where I think this is bad is that it was done slowly, looking for every opportunity to back out of a decision.
I'm not actually salty about the series result. Getting the penalty and Beauden flukeing it over may have been the worst result for me, if it just papers over the cracks of our obvious weakness. But I'm soft as Rocky Rockvottom says (I think) after our back to back world cups.
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@Bovidae Pretty much saved me posting.
I too was at the game and it was magnificent sporting occasion. My brother had some sports ears and it was very obvious that while Poite was telling the Lions what they should do there were no repercussions when they totally ignored him.
Everyone agrees we dominated the first half. Gatland clearly got his troops together and said you've played shit - they're bullying you but your still in this and can steal it. Stop trying to play the AB's at their game and slow the game down and wait for the penalties to come. The AB's are over eager and the mistakes will come.
and come they did - right from the kick off. That penalty to get them to within three - you could see the belief grow in the Lions. Then AB's butchered another try and Kaino was (rightly IMO) binned and we lost the plot a bit.Meanwhile Roundtree? was on the field every stoppage coaching the players chipping away at the ref - it was fucking annoying but quite effective. He, Gatland and Itoje have faces that just cry out to be slapped.
You could see the Lions stealing it becoming more real from about 20 minutes out so the end result was no real surprise - albeit deeply unsatisfying.
As for the ground itself. Monumental experience Worth every cent all 50,000 of them. I've read a bit about how the Lions fans out-passioned our support and we have to learn from them. Well while that is true I think by the 3rd test we Kiwi's had learned and certainly in my part of the ground the Lions were no more vocal than the locals. Every time a Lions chant went up or we felt the AB's needed our support the crowd were up to it. It took many cleansing ales and until about 3am before I got my voice back.
So while it feels like a series lost, we have an opportunity to learn from this. We're not as good as we thought we were, but we're still pretty good and unlike some I think Hansen will take a lot out of this and we will be all the better for it come Japan 2019.
Great night, great test shit result
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@dogmeat I use Sports Ears at the game too, specifically to listen to the ref/ARs/TMO. They are great to hear the communication between the officials and ref with the players. I noted that Poite and Garces spoke between themselves in French a few times which should be a no-no. The most obvious example was when Garces obviously changed Poite's mind at the end, because all Poite did was listen.
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I realise my post above might seem a bit churlish to Lions supporters.
Full credit it was a game of two halves (and we should have won both of them!
)
Seriously though everything has already been said. the lions team definitely atoned for their embarrassments on and off the field in 2005 and while I think they were a little lucky to draw the series they were very effective in every aspect of their play and deserve everyone's admiration. The fact that I got over the "loss" pretty quicky whereas I normally can't even drink after the AB's goes down says a lot.Meanwhile their fans were as always magnificent
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Quelle surprise; Sinckler arrested in Auckland. Seems to be an angry young man.
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@antipodean at least he wasn't 'mugged'
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
The highest rated rugby game on Fox Sports Australia this season was All Blacks vs Lions test 3 - over 200,000 viewers
I wonder how many of those are Australian born? Probably not many
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The other thing I forgot to mention on Poite - how many fucking times do you hear him coaching the lions? "Back, back" was on repeat throughout the match, heard an extraordinary amount of times with no follow up action - apart from the odd couple of times where he actually physically coached them (e.g. the one where he had to run into the ruck and make the lions player bind so he wasn't offside while Murray kicked).
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This game really appears to have been one massive cockup by match officials:
Lions star Alun Wyn Jones should not have been allowed back on after HIA, says Matt Stevens
Alun Wyn Jones should not have been allowed back onto the field during the third Test against New Zealand because he had exceeded the time limit allowed for a Head Injury Assessment (HIA), says Matt Stevens.
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Jonathan Davies deservedly named Man of the Series for the Lions.
And after the dust has settled and thoughts turn to pre-season training and Autumn Internationals, were the omitted and injured missed?
It was unfortunate that Hogg was injured out of the series, but to be fair he wasn't playing well prior to his departure. Would Brown have offered anything better than Williams? I don't think so.
Would the Gray brothers and Launchbury have made the Test side? Maybe Launchbury.
When the Lions went away from 'Warrenball' to 'Eddieball' I think we would have been better served having the original - Ford - not the imitation - Sexton.
And what we really missed was an out and out speedster like Christian Wade or Johnnie May who could have finished some of the chances we created.
But overall the squad selection seems to have been close to spot on.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
This game really appears to have been one massive cockup by match officials:
Alun Wyn Jones should not have been allowed back onto the field during the third Test against New Zealand because he had exceeded the time limit allowed for a Head Injury Assessment (HIA), says Matt Stevens.
Was really uncomfortable with AWJ coming back on. Kind of Lonergan shuffle uncomfortable.
Add that to the two head knocks Lawes suffered and the Lions gave the impression (this may be unfair) that they were somewhat old skool with regard to concussion.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
This game really appears to have been one massive cockup by match officials:
Alun Wyn Jones should not have been allowed back onto the field during the third Test against New Zealand because he had exceeded the time limit allowed for a Head Injury Assessment (HIA), says Matt Stevens.
Was really uncomfortable with AWJ coming back on. Kind of Lonergan shuffle uncomfortable.
Add that to the two head knocks Lawes suffered and the Lions gave the impression (this may be unfair) that they were somewhat old skool with regard to concussion.
What about Read? Took a knock to the head that required attention but didn't leave the field.
Are there on field assessments now?
At the elite level do we need to go down the boxing / MMA route where the Commission where the event is taking place employs an independent medical team (well independent from the competitors) which is responsible for all things medical and has the final say?
World rugby is responsible for officiating. Time to be responsible for medicall too?
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the other one that concerned me was test 1... kaino subbed off, no mention of HIA.... sam cane goes down injured shortly after... then it turns out kaino is off for a HIA? seemed a bit dubious to me at the time, though could have been perfectly innocent.
don't want to see it used as a tactical tool. -
@reprobate well it appeared when Poite had had enough of Sexton being tended to (for what appeared an ankle injury) he told them to take him off a for a HIA....
@MiketheSnow yeah I wondered the same with Read, although was not as bad as AWJ knock.
TBH, I am surprised more hasnt been made of the Kaino-AWJ incident
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
TBH, I am surprised more hasnt been made of the Kaino-AWJ incident
That's because of the SOB-Naholo incident. We were worse off because Kaino got carded and SOB didn't.
And lets be honest, the refs call at the end completely stole the limelight. -
@mimic said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
TBH, I am surprised more hasnt been made of the Kaino-AWJ incident
That's because of the SOB-Naholo incident. We were worse off because Kaino got carded and SOB didn't.
Yeah I know thats why, just surprised thier media didnt jump on it and make out it was worse given some of the thuggery we get accused of...woulda received a week or 2 off at Super rugby I reckon.
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@Bones Bourbon? Well that's a mystery solved - I had wondered who was leaving all the empty biscuit wrappers in Dunorlan Park
