All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I actually don't mind the Lions backline. Think it has plenty of skill whilst having good line breakers in Davies, Watson and even Williams. One thing that fell down for the Lions was the lack of distribution in their midfield, so playing the two 1st 5s will help there.
Good to see Nowell on the bench as well. He's been a surprise.
If I was a Lions fan though I'd be concerned about that pack though. AWJ and Warburton are seasoned vets but they will need to pull something out of the bag (which we haven't seen yet) to match it. No Henderson, but three fairly smallish locks. I think we attack their lineout on every throw.
If the two opensides aren't working early on, I'd yank one of them quickly and put on Stander who has been superb so far this tour.
Breaking the gainline through the backs wasn't the problem in the 1st Test. Converting opportunities was.
What we've supposedly gained in attack had been far outweighed in defence.
If Sexton lasts more than 30 mins before breaking then either
a the ABs have been beaten at the breakdown and are starved of possession, orb Barrett and SBW and Naholo off the angle are not doing their job
Can't see either happening.
And don't get me started on Nowell.
He's one of many English players who haven't brought their 6N form on tour
Nowell, Joseph, Farrell, Kruis, Cole, Marler -
@booboo said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
man, gotta love the Media!!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/94225768/eden-park-music-upsets-lions
It's getting kind of petty
There's a song in that....
It's getting
It's getting
It's getting
Kinda pettyIt's getting
It's getting
It's getting
Kinda petty -
@booboo said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@booboo said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
man, gotta love the Media!!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/94225768/eden-park-music-upsets-lions
It's getting kind of petty
There's a song in that....
It's getting
It's getting
It's getting
Kinda pettyIt's getting
It's getting
It's getting
Kinda pettyWarren Petty and the Dirtrackers
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@SammyC said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
man, gotta love the Media!!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/94225768/eden-park-music-upsets-lions
It was bloody annoying at the ground, stupid song. But complaining about it is ridiculous
The most well received song was Fred Daggs Gumboot song, felt like all 45,000 were belting that one out.
Yeah, when I saw them promoting Tutira Mai, I knew it was going to be a struggle to get a buy in. Lets be honest, it's a Maori song, so good luck getting them to sing it.
The "white" crowd will obviously know the gumboot song a lot better than Tutira Mai, but I think they should stick with it. Kind of like the National Anthem, it's quiet when it's the Maori part, and a lot louder in the English part. But I think it's improving these days, even if only a little.
It's something that will need time to build into our rugby culture, and the song has a good message. I do hope the Tutira Mai campaign continues beyond the Lions tour, even if it is superficial. Unless someone has an idea of a better song (or an english one). -
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Well, I've taken the time to cool of a little and to reconsider my level of foreboding, forcing myself not to comment on the Lions selection until I'd given it some cold hard thought. Sadly my levels of foreboding have only receded a little, but at least I won't be in full rant mode when discussing the squad.
First off the selection looks like it is a knee-jerk reaction to Plan A not working. Knee-jerk reactions are seldom very good ones and especially so if you really do not have a Plan B to back up with and certainly haven't given any thought to implementation of one all tour. (Some would say the whole coaching career).
The biggest sea-change is the two playmaker idea. In itself not a bad idea but the devil is in the detail. Firstly none of the 10s on tour have played particularly well and you can't say that any are on any real form. Secondly all the tour starting teams have gone down the 10 playmaker with a big lump outside - anytime this has not been the case has been because an injury has forced this on the coaches. Additionally Teo defended well in his channel and broke the line as much as anyone. It just smacks of desperate measures and this worries me against a team as good as NZ.
From 13 outwards all is as good as it could be given injuries and form. The backs on the bench are 2/3rds correct but the inclusion of Nowell is an odd one and I think with North injured, that this time I would have gone with Halfpenny instead of Nowell.
The forwards, the forwards. Where it all starts and ends. Front row, starting and bench is fine by me, but both second row and back row again show heaps of confused thinking. Kruis goes from the one nailed on second row to out of the squad altogether on the back of one so-so performance. O'Mahoney goes from test captain to the invisible man on the back of a pretty good performance. AWJ keeps his staring place after a(nother) poor showing and Warburton seemingly has to be fitted in. Don't get me worng Warburton played well when he came on and he does offer something different to O'Mahoney, but where is the balance?
What really shits me is that I have to get up early on Saturday to watch all this unfold. Is 8.30am too early for a beer? Not usually when rugby is on the menu but this time I think I will be hosing it down to numb the pain.
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Problem for Gatland was that his squad doesn't contain any real answers for where the Lions were beaten - the close pitched gainline battle. There aren't mad dog loosies, locks or hookers on tour. No Teagues, no Johnstons, no Woods/Moores. That's what he needed to answer the ABs close quarters, quick recycle ruck game.
Instead he's reacted with what he's got: Warburton and Itoje, with Lawes and Stander on the bench. Not sure it will do the trick. And it probably nullifies the one real advantage the lions had in the 1st test: the lineout.
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@Smuts said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Problem for Gatland was that his squad doesn't contain any real answers for where the Lions were beaten - the close pitched gainline battle. There aren't mad dog loosies, locks or hookers on tour. No Teagues, no Johnstons, no Woods/Moores. That's what he needed to answer the ABs close quarters, quick recycle ruck game.
Instead he's reacted with what he's got: Warburton and Itoje, with Lawes and Stander on the bench. Not sure it will do the trick. And it probably nullifies the one real advantage the lions had in the 1st test: the lineout.
Agreed.
But he could have come a whole lot closer by selecting Owens and Tipuric to start.
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Looking at the form of the 10s on tour, would Gatland have been better served pairing Biggar with Farrell?
I believe so.
Biggar plays flat, has good hands, a varied kicking game and can tackle.
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I just don't get where Farrell's value is at 12 anyway.
Yes, you could equate him to a player like Crotty but we play Crotty with a creative 10, which is also arguably what Eddie Jones does with Ford/Farrell.
What the Lions have shown is that they can cause problems off loose counterattack and if they get behind the defence and cause a scramble. The best chance of the latter was still Teo.
It's like they are in a tangle. They want farrell there to kick because they can't drop Williams for Halfpenny.
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@MiketheSnow I reckon Russell would have been the go, but probably plays a style contradictory to what the lions are aiming for. He strikes me as the most creative and off the cuff 10 and would definitely be unexpected for the ABs. Reminds me of an in form Donald, not exactly huge praise but Beaver can turn it on.
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Quick comment on the music thing, specifically the complaint about it being played while Biggar was taking a penalty.
I did notice that but Biggar took it so quickly, like one of those conversions from in front that they only take from 10m out, they didn't have the chance to stop it.
But let's not get bogged down with context if it feeds the narrative.
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Have no problem with the music myself. NZ crowds are utterly hopeless at singing - my experience of AB tests is a deathly silent crowd, with the odd "ABs, ABs" chant. We are not remotely like the singing NH crowds, who don't need piped in music to generate some sound.
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could well be wrong , but im guessing gats may have waited to see the ab team before confirming his starting side ,
once he saw the relatively inexperienced (combination wise )back 3 named , he leaned towards this 10 12 combo to pepper them with kicks.
if they started with bb and dagg in the back 3 he may have started teo .......just a hunch
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@Billy-Tell so its AB's clap clap clap vs LIONS, LIONS LIONS
neither likely to win 'NZ or Britains Got Talent' -
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Looking at the form of the 10s on tour, would Gatland have been better served pairing Biggar with Farrell?
I believe so.
Biggar plays flat, has good hands, a varied kicking game and can tackle.
Yeah, none of them have been crash hot, but I have to say that Biggar to me seems just a little bit ordinary. I would still prefer Farrell over any of the other choices (maybe a bit of Saes bias there mind). He hasn't had any glaring errors and although he's not set the world on fire he has shown some ambition and creativity - just not enough as yet.
I worry about the NZ power runners coming into that 10/12 channel and without a monster tackler in the back row we could see a hard arvo for Sexton and Farrell. Still the flip side argument is that the blokes that looked like they could cause some damage were the back three and now we might actually get the ball to them.
Might.
