How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?
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@westcoastie As i may have mentioned on the 'canes thread, I find Shields to be a very ordinary player.
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I don't think they will consider using two openside flankers. Many have tried that tactic and it has rarely worked - and then only in the short-term.
Especially when the obvious plan for the Lions is to try to out-muscle us up front.
I'm going to work on the assumption that JK will be fit, well-rested and ready to play - with Plan B. being Messam or Squire.
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@Chris-B. nah remember that time it worked and everyone got scared that we needed to change everything to combat it!
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@westcoastie said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Did Kaino win a Super title in 2003 with the Blues?
No, he debuted the following year.
I think Squire is better as an impact sub. He was poor in Chicago when he started. I'm sure Kaino will be fine but Messam is an experienced replacement if required. Like @mariner4life, I don't see Shields as an international quality loose forward.
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@taniwharugby I do remember that, now you mention it.
The most infamous version I remember is Smith and Waugh at the 2003 RWC, but I think it's worked against us since, as well. Pocock and Hooper?
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@Chris-B. said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
I don't think they will consider using two openside flankers. Many have tried that tactic and it has rarely worked - and then only in the short-term.
Especially when the obvious plan for the Lions is to try to out-muscle us up front.
I think a combination of Cane and A. Savea is unlikely to be out-muscled.
Cane's height is pretty much the only thing that stops him being a pure #6 anyway, since he's ordinary in the "fetcher" stakes by international standards. And we've seen that Ardie can make a decent fist of #8.
Ritchie McCaw played successfully on the opposite side of the scrum from Matt Todd on many occasions for the Crusaders.
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@Chester-Draws Yes, but none of your examples are test rugby.
Just last year we thought we could field Kaino as a small lock against Ireland and it backfired badly.
There's a reasonable chance of the Lions edging us up front even with Kaino playing. I reckon we will get significantly out-muscled if we try fielding Cane and Savea, but I don't think Hansen will consider it.
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I cant see them playing 2 7s against the Lions ,
thats the type of thing you can get away with against the aussies , not this lot who present a more physical challenge
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You have to look at the role Kaino plays in the set up. He is tasked to straight line carry in close and to drive attacks backward with dominant tackles.
Who is the closest we have to that?
Is it worth looking at Scott Barrett to do that job? Could help with the bench set up as well meaning 2 loosies to come on for impact. -
Dare I throw a Whitelock into the mix?!
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@Paekakboyz He's been going well enough. It's unlikely, but not completely beyond the realms of possibility. Probably about the same place as Taufua.
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@Crucial said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
You have to look at the role Kaino plays in the set up. He is tasked to straight line carry in close and to drive attacks backward with dominant tackles.
Who is the closest we have to that?
Is it worth looking at Scott Barrett to do that job? Could help with the bench set up as well meaning 2 loosies to come on for impact.its funny you mentioned Barrett, I was thinking of him
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@Paekakboyz said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Dare I throw a Whitelock into the mix?!
It did cross my mind as well.
Just did a quick compare of stats against those of Kaino's this year and no one comes close except Shields who beats him in nearly every area except that he has conceded more turnovers.
Next best solely by stats is probably Messam.
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@KiwiMurph said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Kaino will undergo surgery this week (knee) and will be out of action for around six weeks.
Where is the "unlike" button?
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@mariner4life said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
I like Squire off the bench in tests, but not sure a starting role fits his current skill set.
I'm a massive fan of Messam, but not sure his form is of the same quality as a couple of years ago. Not sure Dixon provides the presence.
I think all the main possibilities bring different skill sets, and would probably need a rejig of responsibility in the back row, as none are a like-for-like replacement. Of course, the coach probably feels completely different.
Luatua?
Fifita? -
@westcoastie said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Did Kaino win a Super title in 2003 with the Blues?
Anyways, replacements?
Cane to 6, Todd or Savea to 7?
Squire? Don't think Dixon or Messam are up to it.
Brad Shields? (I thought he was an 8, but started at 6 vs Brumbies - could this be his time?)AB's really like their 6 smashing people in the tight, and also like Read being free to roam so they need that balance.
To be honest, Kaino will get back, and fresh, and then belt Warburton, Faletau, O'Brien, Itoje, anything in red, and then retire. Actually, he might belt a few aussies just for shits & giggles and then retire.
Surely Cane to 6 is never happening. We'll be left with a Pooper lineout.
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@Crucial said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Is it worth looking at Scott Barrett to do that job? Could help with the bench set up as well meaning 2 loosies to come on for impact.
Super Rugby 6's play a LOT looser than test 6's, so the direct comparison for the tests is more likley to be a 6/lock from super rugby, rather than a straight 6. Also the Lions will play a big jumper at 6.
So I'd be pretty happy to see Barrett play 6 for the Crusaders v the Lions as an audition.
Kainos role in tests, as you note, is close hit ups, hit every ruck, lift in lineouts, scrum well. Moving a 7 over there - like Ardie, would literally be bringing in the total opposite.
Worth bearing in mind too, when considering 6, half the Fern regard Ruben Thorne as a joke, while 3 (4?) sets of AB selectors regarded him as utterly vital & pretty much every team he played in right through regarded him a a legend, so maybe the Fern collective should be looking for a 6 they have no idea why they keep getting picked & who has zero X factor - cause thats probably the guy that will in the selectors sights.
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@gollum said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@Crucial said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Is it worth looking at Scott Barrett to do that job? Could help with the bench set up as well meaning 2 loosies to come on for impact.
Super Rugby 6's play a LOT looser than test 6's, so the direct comparison for the tests is more likley to be a 6/lock from super rugby, rather than a straight 6. Also the Lions will play a big jumper at 6.
So I'd be pretty happy to see Barrett play 6 for the Crusaders v the Lions as an audition.
Kainos role in tests, as you note, is close hit ups, hit every ruck, lift in lineouts, scrum well. Moving a 7 over there - like Ardie, would literally be bringing in the total opposite.
Worth bearing in mind too, when considering 6, half the Fern regard Ruben Thorne as a joke, while 3 (4?) sets of AB selectors regarded him as utterly vital & pretty much every team he played in right through regarded him a a legend, so maybe the Fern collective should be looking for a 6 they have no idea why they keep getting picked & who has zero X factor - cause thats probably the guy that will in the selectors sights.
Luke Whitelock has already been mentioned.
