All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.
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@reprobate Yeah, nah. If he was so good at stealing, he'd be able to do it alongside all the other great stuff he does... except he doesn't. If Read or Cane set about only looking to try and get steals throughout a match and not be good at or do much else, I'd imagine they'd be just great for Australia too.
To me, I'd liken your argument to saying you'd rather have Steyn than Barrett, because wow what a great kicker!
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@reprobate Yeah, nah. If he was so good at stealing, he'd be able to do it alongside all the other great stuff he does... except he doesn't. If Read or Cane set about only looking to try and get steals throughout a match and not be good at or do much else, I'd imagine they'd be just great for Australia too.
To me, I'd liken your argument to saying you'd rather have Steyn than Barrett, because wow what a great kicker!
bro, the real parallel would be you telling me that steyn isn't a good goal-kicker - because he doesn't do anything else - and anyone could be that good if they didn't have to do other things too. there are probably a dozen guys in world rugby i'd pick ahead of steyn to play 10 - but that doesn't mean he's not good at kicking goals.
as far as selection goes, the strongest thing i've said is that i think he'd be picked in an anzac squad ahead of savea or todd - but not cane. that's largely based on experience at this stage, given those other guys have only started a couple of tests each, and most of the rugby world outside of nz would agree with me.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@reprobate Yeah, nah. If he was so good at stealing, he'd be able to do it alongside all the other great stuff he does... except he doesn't. If Read or Cane set about only looking to try and get steals throughout a match and not be good at or do much else, I'd imagine they'd be just great for Australia too.
To me, I'd liken your argument to saying you'd rather have Steyn than Barrett, because wow what a great kicker!
bro, the real parallel would be you telling me that steyn isn't a good
goal-kickerfirst five-eighth - because he doesn't do anything else - and anyone could be that good if they didn't have to do other things too. there are probably a dozen guys in world rugby i'd pick ahead of steyn to play 10 - but that doesn't mean he's not good at kicking goals.Fixed.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
and apologies I am still learming this new formating system. Should read as
--"It's not really a head butt. More Hoopah waving his hair in the opposition's face."
Should be a red card just on account of all that hybrid bogan-hipster grease.
You might take from this I am not a fan of MH. True, I think he is on the verge of flat track bullyism and isn't that effective against top sides, he is fast but too busy running into people to set up strategic team ploys.
I might risk the neoliberal wrath of the collective TSF fratpack but I prefer Pocock, he runs as fast and as agile as a concrete hippo and he might be a one trick pony but he is so good at that one trick and sch a team player that you could build a side around his steals. Surprised he isn't called Arnie the jackal.This is up there with the Savea is shit talk (and has been done to death as much). He's not even that effective at stealing and even if he was, what good does it really do his team?
I thought we all agreed it was "Savea isn't quite at the ridiculously good standards he set for himself" rather than "Savea is shit"
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@akan004 said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@rotated said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I'm still amazed how in a game where Aussie were awarded a conversion they missed AND were given a penalty immediately following that for some innocuous push and shove following the try - they are still the victims.
Huge mental issues for Aussie - the biggest concern of the whole press performance was how Cheika said he would only let the team use the (correct) TMO decision as an excuse if they lost by a try. Not exactly the "no excuses" mentality you want your team to have.
Visited GNGR yesterday....never again. Most on there are stilll whingeing, playing the victims and are actually defending Cheika's rant.
I used to be a fan of their podcasts, but there's a guy on there called Matt Rowley (owns the website I think) who's obviously got plenty of issues on anything to do with NZ rugby. Decided to check his twitter feed, and the guy is just a bully who leads with the anti kiwi vitriol and a lot of the posters follow suit. It's a shame because guys like Barbarian etc appear to be decent blokes.
I used to post there frequently, but I've walked away from it for three reasons. They take themselves far too seriously, the anti-NZ from a few (certainly not all) & Matt Rowley. I don't want to associate anything to do with that guy. As you say, a complete and utter troll who has problems with kiwis. I've not looked at his twitter feed, so I just did - and this made me actually LOL ...
A kiwi writes - if I feel the need to read a about a bunch of sore losers whinging about nz rugby , GAGR is the place to guy ... to which Rowley called him a kiwi troll ... but then later on says to the same guy - "lesson, someone pointing out something you don't like isn't trolling"
Irony, in it's most pure, sweetest form.
(caveat - there are many balanced, honest, good, sincere posters there who I wish nothing but well - barbarian certainly at the top of this tree)
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@reprobate Yeah, nah. If he was so good at stealing, he'd be able to do it alongside all the other great stuff he does... except he doesn't. If Read or Cane set about only looking to try and get steals throughout a match and not be good at or do much else, I'd imagine they'd be just great for Australia too.
To me, I'd liken your argument to saying you'd rather have Steyn than Barrett, because wow what a great kicker!
bro, the real parallel would be you telling me that steyn isn't a good goal-kicker - because he doesn't do anything else - and anyone could be that good if they didn't have to do other things too. there are probably a dozen guys in world rugby i'd pick ahead of steyn to play 10 - but that doesn't mean he's not good at kicking goals.
as far as selection goes, the strongest thing i've said is that i think he'd be picked in an anzac squad ahead of savea or todd - but not cane. that's largely based on experience at this stage, given those other guys have only started a couple of tests each, and most of the rugby world outside of nz would agree with me.
My point exactly.
I said kicking, not goal-kicking. Steyn is a great kicker - because that's all he fucken does. If all our 10 did was kick, I'm sure he'd be deemed to be a great kicker too.
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@Bones i don't think steyn is a great kicker in open play, in fact i think he is below average at that level. you said pocock isn't good at breakdown turnovers - he just is though. whatever the reason for that, or what he sacrifices to achieve it, he just is.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
bro, the real parallel would be you telling me that steyn isn't a good
goal-kickerfirst five-eighth - because he doesn't do anything else - and anyone could be that good if they didn't have to do other things too. there are probably a dozen guys in world rugby i'd pick ahead of steyn to play 10 - but that doesn't mean he's not good at kicking goals.Fixed.
nah bro, not even. bones' statement was that pocock wasn't even that good at steals. it wasn't whether he was a good 7.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Bones i don't think steyn is a great kicker in open play, in fact i think he is below average at that level. you said pocock isn't good at breakdown turnovers - he just is though. whatever the reason for that, or what he sacrifices to achieve it, he just is.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
bro, the real parallel would be you telling me that steyn isn't a good
goal-kickerfirst five-eighth - because he doesn't do anything else - and anyone could be that good if they didn't have to do other things too. there are probably a dozen guys in world rugby i'd pick ahead of steyn to play 10 - but that doesn't mean he's not good at kicking goals.Fixed.
nah bro, not even. bones' statement was that pocock wasn't even that good at steals. it wasn't whether he was a good 7.
Well no, that's just all he does so it might seem he gets plenty. He'd be good at it if he managed to build it into general good play, not if that's all he concentrates on - again, most of our loosies/locks would equal Pocock in those stats if that's all they did.
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@Bones bro that is like saying val adams isn't that good at the shot cause she doesn't bother with the high jump.
sam whitelock and brodie retallick are in my opinion the two best locks in the world - but if you think either of them has the strength over the ball of pocock, you're dreaming. his centre of gravity is about halfway up their shins.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Bones bro that is like saying val adams isn't that good at the shot cause she doesn't bother with the high jump.
I think you've jumped the shark now if you think that analogy has any merit. Ms Adams isn't a field athlete, she's a shot putter. Throwing the shot is the skill. There's more than one facet to playing flanker.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I think you've jumped the shark now if you think that analogy has any merit. Ms Adams isn't a field athlete, she's a shot putter. Throwing the shot is the skill. There's more than one facet to playing flanker.
the statement wasn't that he is / isn't a good flanker, it was whether he was good at that one skill.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Bones bro that is like saying val adams isn't that good at the shot cause she doesn't bother with the high jump.
Errr what? It's nothing like that. It'd be more like saying one of Val's competitors isn't the best at spinning through the circle even though she does the most spins. I'm sure Val could do as many spins, but she's concentrating on the bigger picture, rather than spinning the most.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I think you've jumped the shark now if you think that analogy has any merit. Ms Adams isn't a field athlete, she's a shot putter. Throwing the shot is the skill. There's more than one facet to playing flanker.
the statement wasn't that he is / isn't a good flanker, it was whether he was good at that one skill.
No it wasn't, it was whether he's as good as the hype suggests. He's good at it, yes...but not that good.
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Perhaps it's because he was away from rugby for 2 years or perhaps the game has moved on, but Pocock's deficiencies have been quite critically exposed this year. I mean the Wallaby props have better ball skills than he does which is pretty shocking for a modern day 7 or 8. What I don't get is how he gets ragdolled so much and can't seem to win a single metre of ground. On the weekend he grabbed the ball and was pushed back further than the Italians in North Africa. I know he isn't tall but he's built like a farking tank and you'd think he could break a tackle now and then.
Sure he steals pills better than a druggo, but it seems incredible that he hasn't developed his running game in all these years as an international player.
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This thread, jesus
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
This thread, jesus
What's bugging you tonight dildo gobbler?
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@Crucial Take the point. I don't think it's at all contentious that foul play can invalidate a try (or droppie I suppose) and I wasn't advocating that. And agree that the 'Rules' need to be applied throughout the game. But why not add something similar to what I propose to the try related TMO 'protocols' -- or whatever they're called? That way (in the actual game) Speight scores (I acknowledge that Barrett miraculously thwarted Le Roux but I don't think it's right to be influenced by remote possibilities). However, in your Hooper butt scenario foul play invalidates.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Bones No great fan of Steyn. But I seem to recall he was the tactical ticker in 2009 when the Bokke's excellent kick chase under the then rules meant they owned us on the scoreboard.
Not sure what you're getting at?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel For a shithouse Pocock has zero go forward, and I suspect my old man (who's 86) could run him down -- did he have a serious knee problem?!
But I saw an article in The Roar, I think, a few years ago comparing McGod, Hooper and Pocock (who was out for a while then with injury) as 7s. The gist was that although Hooper was up there or ahead of Ritchie in turnovers, he paled into insignificance in terms of 'involvements' -- which I suppose is defined as being in the right place at the right time doing the right thing. Pocock was up there with Hooper on turnovers, but a long way towards Ritchie in involvements.
Would be interesting to what I trio of Pocock, Fardy and Timani could achieve with Hooper playing the 'Savea' role.
