All Blacks 2025
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
I expect the 2025 squad to be the 2024 squad with maaaaybe some fiddling around the edges, and the test team to be the same as last year as well. That's kinda depressing really.
I think you'll be right on this. I expect most of us will be able to pick 90% of the squad.
But, I think there's a significant jump to test level from Super rugby, so most of the best prospects take time to get acclimatised - so there's a bit of disincentive to change.
But, more importantly, we never have to deal with any man-management issues associated with dropping a player. For example, if you were to drop Ardie - as many were advocating last year - you'd be feeling a bit sick right now if he'd signed a multi-million dollar contract to fuck off to Japan.
If guys are getting spots because we're scared they'll leave then we are more fucked than I thought
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The red cards have certainly been an issue.
Loss - SBW Lions
Loss - Scott Barrett Australia
Loss - Tu'ungafasi Australia
Win - Jordie Barrett Australia
Loss - Angus Ta'avao Ireland
Win - Brodie Retallick Japan
Loss - Scott Barrett South Africa ( Plus Sam Cane Yellow )
Win - Ethan De Groot Nambia
Loss - Sam Cane South AfricaApart from the Jordie Barrett one it cost us against the better teams.
Still I feel that loss in Ireland in 2016 was more significant than the Lion's loss. That game marked a real moment of complacency.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
And i am sick of the same core guys getting wheeled out every single week, most for 80 minutes, failing to deliver, and never being under pressure for their spot.
This. And then e.g. our props recently where some serial underperformer who has been there for ages get injured and someone else comes in and is an immediate improvement, and you just go "fucking no shit dummies, why didn't you pick him 10 tests ago".
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Selection consistency has been an issue. These are the times this decade where the same loose forward trios have been consecutively selected ( according to Gemini ).
28% of games this decade had a consecutive loose forward selection. Win rate is 82% when we have consecutive loose forward selection and 65% when we don't.
11 October 2020 vs Australia (Wellington):
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie Savea18 October 2020 vs Australia (Auckland):[1]
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie Savea7 August 2021 vs Australia (Auckland):[4]
BF: Akira Ioane[4]
OF: Dalton Papalii[4]
No. 8: Ardie Savea[4]14 August 2021 vs Australia (Auckland):[5]
BF: Akira Ioane[5]
OF: Dalton Papalii
No. 8: Ardie Savea[5]5 September 2021 vs Australia (Perth):
BF: Akira Ioane
OF: Dalton Papalii
No. 8: Ardie Savea13 August 2022 vs South Africa (Johannesburg):
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie Savea27 August 2022 vs Argentina (Christchurch):
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie Savea3 September 2022 vs Argentina (Hamilton):[7]
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane[7]
No. 8: Ardie Savea8 July 2023 vs Argentina (Mendoza):
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie Savea15 July 2023 vs South Africa (Auckland):
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie Savea14 October 2023 vs Ireland (Saint-Denis) (Rugby World Cup Quarter-final):[10]
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie Savea20 October 2023 vs Argentina (Saint-Denis) (Rugby World Cup Semi-final):[10]
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie Savea28 October 2023 vs South Africa (Saint-Denis) (Rugby World Cup Final):[10]
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie SaveaSaturday, July 6, 2024 vs England (Dunedin):
BF: Samipeni Finau
OF: Dalton Papalii
No. 8: Ardie SaveaSaturday, July 13, 2024 vs England (Auckland):
BF: Samipeni Finau
OF: Dalton Papalii
No. 8: Ardie SaveaSaturday, September 21, 2024 vs Australia (Sydney):
BF: Wallace Sititi[5]
OF: Sam Cane[5]
No. 8: Ardie Savea[5]Saturday, September 28, 2024 vs Australia (Wellington):[5]
BF: Wallace Sititi[5]
OF: Sam Cane[5]
No. 8: Ardie Savea[5] -
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think the coaches will keep the faith with Vaa’i but I would really like to see Barrett and Holland get a couple of starts together.
bro you're better than this. Vaa'i has been the premier lock at both levels for the past 12-15 months. If anything SB is the one who should be giving way.
They are all in on Barrett being captain so I don’t think they will shift him, and I am a big Vaa’i fan and he will feature in all the big tests - more a case of giving Holland a start perhaps against the Argies or Aussies.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
It's 2025 and people are still claiming Akira Ioane is the saviour for the ABs. A very good Super Rugby player, who never quite kicked on.
Bollocks. He had some great games for the ABs.
https://www.allblacks.com/videos/akira-ioane-goes-beast-mode-vs-australia -
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think the coaches will keep the faith with Vaa’i but I would really like to see Barrett and Holland get a couple of starts together.
bro you're better than this. Vaa'i has been the premier lock at both levels for the past 12-15 months. If anything SB is the one who should be giving way.
They are all in on Barrett being captain so I don’t think they will shift him, and I am a big Vaa’i fan and he will feature in all the big tests - more a case of giving Holland a start perhaps against the Argies or Aussies.
I'm not actually in love with this idea, but for discussion sake since I've had a few too many beers on a weeknight.
Vaai has (more than) the size and workrate we are looking for in our 6, he is good in contact, makes dominant tackles and goes well around the field (he is a good passer when the chiefs run through their set plays but can also be the ball carrier).
Williams and others (e.g., Taylor) can do a role attacking the ball in middle of park, while Savea and Sotutu operate towards the edges.
I don't think any of the above will happen btw.
I'm picking Lio Willie to get the 8 shirt and us to have hybrids in the loosies and to struggle with our line out.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think the coaches will keep the faith with Vaa’i but I would really like to see Barrett and Holland get a couple of starts together.
bro you're better than this. Vaa'i has been the premier lock at both levels for the past 12-15 months. If anything SB is the one who should be giving way.
They are all in on Barrett being captain so I don’t think they will shift him, and I am a big Vaa’i fan and he will feature in all the big tests - more a case of giving Holland a start perhaps against the Argies or Aussies.
I'm not actually in love with this idea, but for discussion sake since I've had a few too many beers on a weeknight.
Vaai has (more than) the size and workrate we are looking for in our 6, he is good in contact, makes dominant tackles and goes well around the field (he is a good passer when the chiefs run through their set plays but can also be the ball carrier).
Williams and others (e.g., Taylor) can do a role attacking the ball in middle of park, while Savea and Sotutu operate towards the edges.
I don't think any of the above will happen btw.
I'm picking Lio Willie to get the 8 shirt and us to have hybrids in the loosies and to struggle with our line out.
Believe that Razor thinks Lio-Willie is too small for Test rugby.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
I mean all of our issues with the balance of the loosies is because the coaches didn't want Akira, despite being a super talented big body with AB experience and in career best form. Their personal beef with Akira is really, really hurting them now.
Share your opinion with certainty and you will always get a few likes 😉
Ioane is one of many super talented blindsides we have tried with mixed output. Some excellent performances and some not so.
I think the problem we have had with finding a more permanent blindside comes back to the main problem of the AB coaches over the last few years - playing Cane and Savea together. It’s never really worked despite some standout individual performances by both players (and team results) over the journey.
I’m not here to denigrate either player either because I’m a fan of both - but because of their relative strengths as players - and areas that aren’t strengths - we have had to in my opinion over invest in trying to find the perfect player to fit in with these 2, an apparent unicorn in my view.
So are we in danger of going down the same path as @mariner4life is hinting at with Savea and Sititi?
The starting trio against France - 6. Finau 7. Savea 8. Sititi - may have been a signal of what they might like but for me that struggled against the size of the French pack. There was a nervous optimism I would say with this trio going in, but again the strengths of Savea and Sititi and not what they naturally offer was bought into spotlight.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
I mean all of our issues with the balance of the loosies is because the coaches didn't want Akira, despite being a super talented big body with AB experience and in career best form. Their personal beef with Akira is really, really hurting them now.
Share your opinion with certainty and you will always get a few likes 😉
Ioane is one of many super talented blindsides we have tried with mixed output. Some excellent performances and some not so.
I think the problem we have had with finding a more permanent blindside comes back to the main problem of the AB coaches over the last few years - playing Cane and Savea together. It’s never really worked despite some standout individual performances by both players (and team results) over the journey.
I’m not here to denigrate either player either because I’m a fan of both - but because of their relative strengths as players - and areas that aren’t strengths - we have had to in my opinion over invest in trying to find the perfect player to fit in with these 2, an apparent unicorn in my view.
So are we in danger of going down the same path as @mariner4life is hinting at with Savea and Sititi?
The starting trio against France - 6. Finau 7. Savea 8. Sititi - may have been a signal of what they might like but for me that struggled against the size of the French pack. There was a nervous optimism I would say with this trio going in, but again the strengths of Savea and Sititi and not what they naturally offer was bought into spotlight.
Lakai came on after a few minutes in that French game.
Having said that I agree that the Savea and Cane combo has been unbalanced.
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@brodean another in the same mould and hence why we struggled with the bigger pack.
I think if we want to play one of these guys on the bench we need to go with a 6/2 or have a genuine lock/6 option on the bench also.
And on a completely unrelated matter but is All Blacks related - the new ABs website is terrible. The game and player pages are less informative. All the scrolling just to see the starting lineups because they’ve gone with oversized fonts and icons.
Plus all the historical links to games have not been indexed to the new site page. Gummon ABs
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Yeah the new site is poor and takes an age to load sometimes.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life What gets to me most is the lack of ambition with the current custodians of the Black Jersey. There seems to be a belief in AB HQ that if we are third or fourth in the world and hold onto the Bledisloe Cup then that's alright. Bugger that!
Our coaches have lost their belief in polishing rough diamonds into world class players, our administrators seem content to play second fiddle to the Springboks, our players enjoy being legends in their own small country rather than global superstars.
It won't be too long until the fans lose their passion too.
I think a lot of damage has already been done and the rubicon has been crossed.
We have been far too nice on and off the field since 2015, overly embracing the social media age and trying to Harlem Globetrotify the Allblacks with complacent exhibition matches in Chicago, San Diego and Japan.
There should have been blue murder cried after the Lions series in 2017 and similarly during the Irish series in 2022.
We have milquetoast players, coaches, pundits and administrators. Even Robinson didn’t have the bollocks to sack Foster. A lack of ruthlessness from the top down.
The same under performers racking up cap after cap after cap.
Meanwhile Rassie has been bleating about everything, copping bans (a means that justifies his end) acting the maggot with water carriers, strategic injuries, traffic lights, bomb squads and questionable use of the HIA system. All of this will be forgotten in the annals of time. It will show Lions winning coach and two time World Cup winner in the record books. Conversation ended.
He has been ruthless with his squad too, hooking the likes of Libbock before half time in a World Cup game.
His forwards are jagged elbowed brutes who all pile in at the first sign of a scuffle.
We have a bunch of selfie taking, “chur bro”, “I’d like to thank the lord above” (after we have been spanked) players who just want to be everyone’s mates.
Bar Rieko Ioane.
He’s no centre but he knows his fucking assignment as an Allblack and a competitor.
Look at Bundee Aki and James Lowe. Two mouthpieces who are in the middle of everything.
If they had stayed in NZ, they would have ended up just like the rest of our soy boys.
It’s cultural.
I’m only 40, wouldn’t consider myself a dinosaur yet, but dare I say it we need a few more fucking arseholes in the organisation from the top down.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Bar Rieko Ioane.
He’s no centre but he knows his fucking assignment as an Allblack and a competitor
Yep, very refreshing, trying to ignite fires and fuel rivalries.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life What gets to me most is the lack of ambition with the current custodians of the Black Jersey. There seems to be a belief in AB HQ that if we are third or fourth in the world and hold onto the Bledisloe Cup then that's alright. Bugger that!
Our coaches have lost their belief in polishing rough diamonds into world class players, our administrators seem content to play second fiddle to the Springboks, our players enjoy being legends in their own small country rather than global superstars.
It won't be too long until the fans lose their passion too.
I think a lot of damage has already been done and the rubicon has been crossed.
We have been far too nice on and off the field since 2015, overly embracing the social media age and trying to Harlem Globetrotify the Allblacks with complacent exhibition matches in Chicago, San Diego and Japan.
There should have been blue murder cried after the Lions series in 2017 and similarly during the Irish series in 2022.
We have milquetoast players, coaches, pundits and administrators. Even Robinson didn’t have the bollocks to sack Foster. A lack of ruthlessness from the top down.
The same under performers racking up cap after cap after cap.
Meanwhile Rassie has been bleating about everything, copping bans (a means that justifies his end) acting the maggot with water carriers, strategic injuries, traffic lights, bomb squads and questionable use of the HIA system. All of this will be forgotten in the annals of time. It will show Lions winning coach and two time World Cup winner in the record books. Conversation ended.
He has been ruthless with his squad too, hooking the likes of Libbock before half time in a World Cup game.
His forwards are jagged elbowed brutes who all pile in at the first sign of a scuffle.
We have a bunch of selfie taking, “chur bro”, “I’d like to thank the lord above” (after we have been spanked) players who just want to be everyone’s mates.
Bar Rieko Ioane.
He’s no centre but he knows his fucking assignment as an Allblack and a competitor.
Look at Bundee Aki and James Lowe. Two mouthpieces who are in the middle of everything.
If they had stayed in NZ, they would have ended up just like the rest of our soy boys.
It’s cultural.
I’m only 40, wouldn’t consider myself a dinosaur yet, but dare I say it we need a few more fucking arseholes in the organisation from the top down.
Ruthless is a requirement, but you can be hard without being an arsehole mate. Look at all our recent greats.
