All Blacks 2025
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Selection consistency has been an issue. These are the times this decade where the same loose forward trios have been consecutively selected ( according to Gemini ).
28% of games this decade had a consecutive loose forward selection. Win rate is 82% when we have consecutive loose forward selection and 65% when we don't.
11 October 2020 vs Australia (Wellington):
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie Savea18 October 2020 vs Australia (Auckland):[1]
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie Savea7 August 2021 vs Australia (Auckland):[4]
BF: Akira Ioane[4]
OF: Dalton Papalii[4]
No. 8: Ardie Savea[4]14 August 2021 vs Australia (Auckland):[5]
BF: Akira Ioane[5]
OF: Dalton Papalii
No. 8: Ardie Savea[5]5 September 2021 vs Australia (Perth):
BF: Akira Ioane
OF: Dalton Papalii
No. 8: Ardie Savea13 August 2022 vs South Africa (Johannesburg):
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie Savea27 August 2022 vs Argentina (Christchurch):
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie Savea3 September 2022 vs Argentina (Hamilton):[7]
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane[7]
No. 8: Ardie Savea8 July 2023 vs Argentina (Mendoza):
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie Savea15 July 2023 vs South Africa (Auckland):
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie Savea14 October 2023 vs Ireland (Saint-Denis) (Rugby World Cup Quarter-final):[10]
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie Savea20 October 2023 vs Argentina (Saint-Denis) (Rugby World Cup Semi-final):[10]
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie Savea28 October 2023 vs South Africa (Saint-Denis) (Rugby World Cup Final):[10]
BF: Shannon Frizell
OF: Sam Cane
No. 8: Ardie SaveaSaturday, July 6, 2024 vs England (Dunedin):
BF: Samipeni Finau
OF: Dalton Papalii
No. 8: Ardie SaveaSaturday, July 13, 2024 vs England (Auckland):
BF: Samipeni Finau
OF: Dalton Papalii
No. 8: Ardie SaveaSaturday, September 21, 2024 vs Australia (Sydney):
BF: Wallace Sititi[5]
OF: Sam Cane[5]
No. 8: Ardie Savea[5]Saturday, September 28, 2024 vs Australia (Wellington):[5]
BF: Wallace Sititi[5]
OF: Sam Cane[5]
No. 8: Ardie Savea[5] -
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think the coaches will keep the faith with Vaa’i but I would really like to see Barrett and Holland get a couple of starts together.
bro you're better than this. Vaa'i has been the premier lock at both levels for the past 12-15 months. If anything SB is the one who should be giving way.
They are all in on Barrett being captain so I don’t think they will shift him, and I am a big Vaa’i fan and he will feature in all the big tests - more a case of giving Holland a start perhaps against the Argies or Aussies.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
It's 2025 and people are still claiming Akira Ioane is the saviour for the ABs. A very good Super Rugby player, who never quite kicked on.
Bollocks. He had some great games for the ABs.
Akira Ioane goes BEAST MODE vs Australia
Akira Ioane put on a man of the match performance in the All Blacks 38-21 victory over the Wallabies in Perth.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think the coaches will keep the faith with Vaa’i but I would really like to see Barrett and Holland get a couple of starts together.
bro you're better than this. Vaa'i has been the premier lock at both levels for the past 12-15 months. If anything SB is the one who should be giving way.
They are all in on Barrett being captain so I don’t think they will shift him, and I am a big Vaa’i fan and he will feature in all the big tests - more a case of giving Holland a start perhaps against the Argies or Aussies.
I'm not actually in love with this idea, but for discussion sake since I've had a few too many beers on a weeknight.
Vaai has (more than) the size and workrate we are looking for in our 6, he is good in contact, makes dominant tackles and goes well around the field (he is a good passer when the chiefs run through their set plays but can also be the ball carrier).
Williams and others (e.g., Taylor) can do a role attacking the ball in middle of park, while Savea and Sotutu operate towards the edges.
I don't think any of the above will happen btw.
I'm picking Lio Willie to get the 8 shirt and us to have hybrids in the loosies and to struggle with our line out.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think the coaches will keep the faith with Vaa’i but I would really like to see Barrett and Holland get a couple of starts together.
bro you're better than this. Vaa'i has been the premier lock at both levels for the past 12-15 months. If anything SB is the one who should be giving way.
They are all in on Barrett being captain so I don’t think they will shift him, and I am a big Vaa’i fan and he will feature in all the big tests - more a case of giving Holland a start perhaps against the Argies or Aussies.
I'm not actually in love with this idea, but for discussion sake since I've had a few too many beers on a weeknight.
Vaai has (more than) the size and workrate we are looking for in our 6, he is good in contact, makes dominant tackles and goes well around the field (he is a good passer when the chiefs run through their set plays but can also be the ball carrier).
Williams and others (e.g., Taylor) can do a role attacking the ball in middle of park, while Savea and Sotutu operate towards the edges.
I don't think any of the above will happen btw.
I'm picking Lio Willie to get the 8 shirt and us to have hybrids in the loosies and to struggle with our line out.
Believe that Razor thinks Lio-Willie is too small for Test rugby.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
I mean all of our issues with the balance of the loosies is because the coaches didn't want Akira, despite being a super talented big body with AB experience and in career best form. Their personal beef with Akira is really, really hurting them now.
Share your opinion with certainty and you will always get a few likes 😉
Ioane is one of many super talented blindsides we have tried with mixed output. Some excellent performances and some not so.
I think the problem we have had with finding a more permanent blindside comes back to the main problem of the AB coaches over the last few years - playing Cane and Savea together. It’s never really worked despite some standout individual performances by both players (and team results) over the journey.
I’m not here to denigrate either player either because I’m a fan of both - but because of their relative strengths as players - and areas that aren’t strengths - we have had to in my opinion over invest in trying to find the perfect player to fit in with these 2, an apparent unicorn in my view.
So are we in danger of going down the same path as @mariner4life is hinting at with Savea and Sititi?
The starting trio against France - 6. Finau 7. Savea 8. Sititi - may have been a signal of what they might like but for me that struggled against the size of the French pack. There was a nervous optimism I would say with this trio going in, but again the strengths of Savea and Sititi and not what they naturally offer was bought into spotlight.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
I mean all of our issues with the balance of the loosies is because the coaches didn't want Akira, despite being a super talented big body with AB experience and in career best form. Their personal beef with Akira is really, really hurting them now.
Share your opinion with certainty and you will always get a few likes 😉
Ioane is one of many super talented blindsides we have tried with mixed output. Some excellent performances and some not so.
I think the problem we have had with finding a more permanent blindside comes back to the main problem of the AB coaches over the last few years - playing Cane and Savea together. It’s never really worked despite some standout individual performances by both players (and team results) over the journey.
I’m not here to denigrate either player either because I’m a fan of both - but because of their relative strengths as players - and areas that aren’t strengths - we have had to in my opinion over invest in trying to find the perfect player to fit in with these 2, an apparent unicorn in my view.
So are we in danger of going down the same path as @mariner4life is hinting at with Savea and Sititi?
The starting trio against France - 6. Finau 7. Savea 8. Sititi - may have been a signal of what they might like but for me that struggled against the size of the French pack. There was a nervous optimism I would say with this trio going in, but again the strengths of Savea and Sititi and not what they naturally offer was bought into spotlight.
Lakai came on after a few minutes in that French game.
Having said that I agree that the Savea and Cane combo has been unbalanced.
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@brodean another in the same mould and hence why we struggled with the bigger pack.
I think if we want to play one of these guys on the bench we need to go with a 6/2 or have a genuine lock/6 option on the bench also.
And on a completely unrelated matter but is All Blacks related - the new ABs website is terrible. The game and player pages are less informative. All the scrolling just to see the starting lineups because they’ve gone with oversized fonts and icons.
Plus all the historical links to games have not been indexed to the new site page. Gummon ABs
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Yeah the new site is poor and takes an age to load sometimes.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life What gets to me most is the lack of ambition with the current custodians of the Black Jersey. There seems to be a belief in AB HQ that if we are third or fourth in the world and hold onto the Bledisloe Cup then that's alright. Bugger that!
Our coaches have lost their belief in polishing rough diamonds into world class players, our administrators seem content to play second fiddle to the Springboks, our players enjoy being legends in their own small country rather than global superstars.
It won't be too long until the fans lose their passion too.
I think a lot of damage has already been done and the rubicon has been crossed.
We have been far too nice on and off the field since 2015, overly embracing the social media age and trying to Harlem Globetrotify the Allblacks with complacent exhibition matches in Chicago, San Diego and Japan.
There should have been blue murder cried after the Lions series in 2017 and similarly during the Irish series in 2022.
We have milquetoast players, coaches, pundits and administrators. Even Robinson didn’t have the bollocks to sack Foster. A lack of ruthlessness from the top down.
The same under performers racking up cap after cap after cap.
Meanwhile Rassie has been bleating about everything, copping bans (a means that justifies his end) acting the maggot with water carriers, strategic injuries, traffic lights, bomb squads and questionable use of the HIA system. All of this will be forgotten in the annals of time. It will show Lions winning coach and two time World Cup winner in the record books. Conversation ended.
He has been ruthless with his squad too, hooking the likes of Libbock before half time in a World Cup game.
His forwards are jagged elbowed brutes who all pile in at the first sign of a scuffle.
We have a bunch of selfie taking, “chur bro”, “I’d like to thank the lord above” (after we have been spanked) players who just want to be everyone’s mates.
Bar Rieko Ioane.
He’s no centre but he knows his fucking assignment as an Allblack and a competitor.
Look at Bundee Aki and James Lowe. Two mouthpieces who are in the middle of everything.
If they had stayed in NZ, they would have ended up just like the rest of our soy boys.
It’s cultural.
I’m only 40, wouldn’t consider myself a dinosaur yet, but dare I say it we need a few more fucking arseholes in the organisation from the top down.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Bar Rieko Ioane.
He’s no centre but he knows his fucking assignment as an Allblack and a competitor
Yep, very refreshing, trying to ignite fires and fuel rivalries.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life What gets to me most is the lack of ambition with the current custodians of the Black Jersey. There seems to be a belief in AB HQ that if we are third or fourth in the world and hold onto the Bledisloe Cup then that's alright. Bugger that!
Our coaches have lost their belief in polishing rough diamonds into world class players, our administrators seem content to play second fiddle to the Springboks, our players enjoy being legends in their own small country rather than global superstars.
It won't be too long until the fans lose their passion too.
I think a lot of damage has already been done and the rubicon has been crossed.
We have been far too nice on and off the field since 2015, overly embracing the social media age and trying to Harlem Globetrotify the Allblacks with complacent exhibition matches in Chicago, San Diego and Japan.
There should have been blue murder cried after the Lions series in 2017 and similarly during the Irish series in 2022.
We have milquetoast players, coaches, pundits and administrators. Even Robinson didn’t have the bollocks to sack Foster. A lack of ruthlessness from the top down.
The same under performers racking up cap after cap after cap.
Meanwhile Rassie has been bleating about everything, copping bans (a means that justifies his end) acting the maggot with water carriers, strategic injuries, traffic lights, bomb squads and questionable use of the HIA system. All of this will be forgotten in the annals of time. It will show Lions winning coach and two time World Cup winner in the record books. Conversation ended.
He has been ruthless with his squad too, hooking the likes of Libbock before half time in a World Cup game.
His forwards are jagged elbowed brutes who all pile in at the first sign of a scuffle.
We have a bunch of selfie taking, “chur bro”, “I’d like to thank the lord above” (after we have been spanked) players who just want to be everyone’s mates.
Bar Rieko Ioane.
He’s no centre but he knows his fucking assignment as an Allblack and a competitor.
Look at Bundee Aki and James Lowe. Two mouthpieces who are in the middle of everything.
If they had stayed in NZ, they would have ended up just like the rest of our soy boys.
It’s cultural.
I’m only 40, wouldn’t consider myself a dinosaur yet, but dare I say it we need a few more fucking arseholes in the organisation from the top down.
Ruthless is a requirement, but you can be hard without being an arsehole mate. Look at all our recent greats.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life What gets to me most is the lack of ambition with the current custodians of the Black Jersey. There seems to be a belief in AB HQ that if we are third or fourth in the world and hold onto the Bledisloe Cup then that's alright. Bugger that!
Our coaches have lost their belief in polishing rough diamonds into world class players, our administrators seem content to play second fiddle to the Springboks, our players enjoy being legends in their own small country rather than global superstars.
It won't be too long until the fans lose their passion too.
I think a lot of damage has already been done and the rubicon has been crossed.
We have been far too nice on and off the field since 2015, overly embracing the social media age and trying to Harlem Globetrotify the Allblacks with complacent exhibition matches in Chicago, San Diego and Japan.
There should have been blue murder cried after the Lions series in 2017 and similarly during the Irish series in 2022.
We have milquetoast players, coaches, pundits and administrators. Even Robinson didn’t have the bollocks to sack Foster. A lack of ruthlessness from the top down.
The same under performers racking up cap after cap after cap.
Meanwhile Rassie has been bleating about everything, copping bans (a means that justifies his end) acting the maggot with water carriers, strategic injuries, traffic lights, bomb squads and questionable use of the HIA system. All of this will be forgotten in the annals of time. It will show Lions winning coach and two time World Cup winner in the record books. Conversation ended.
He has been ruthless with his squad too, hooking the likes of Libbock before half time in a World Cup game.
His forwards are jagged elbowed brutes who all pile in at the first sign of a scuffle.
We have a bunch of selfie taking, “chur bro”, “I’d like to thank the lord above” (after we have been spanked) players who just want to be everyone’s mates.
Bar Rieko Ioane.
He’s no centre but he knows his fucking assignment as an Allblack and a competitor.
Look at Bundee Aki and James Lowe. Two mouthpieces who are in the middle of everything.
If they had stayed in NZ, they would have ended up just like the rest of our soy boys.
It’s cultural.
I’m only 40, wouldn’t consider myself a dinosaur yet, but dare I say it we need a few more fucking arseholes in the organisation from the top down.
I’m hearing you , and I am a dinosaur 😀
Culturally something has shifted big time in my time of following, hate to say it but this is where I feel a bit jealous of the boks , they aren’t necessarily better but shit I admire their ruthlessness.
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God you guys are full of shit sometimes. Let's go and select a team of arseholes who won't help opposition players up and mouth off at them like James Lowe whenever possible then eh - using those as selection criteria is sure to lead to success. Anyone care to pick a XV? Or even a single player who should be selected over an incumbent on those criteria?
We aren't dominating because we're not good enough: our players, our tactics, our selections. Foster wasn't ruthless enough on selections, Robinson wasn't ruthless enough on Foster - that's about it. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
God you guys are full of shit sometimes. Let's go and select a team of arseholes who won't help opposition players up and mouth off at them like James Lowe whenever possible then eh - using those as selection criteria is sure to lead to success. Anyone care to pick a XV? Or even a single player who should be selected over an incumbent on those criteria?
We aren't dominating because we're not good enough: our players, our tactics, our selections. Foster wasn't ruthless enough on selections, Robinson wasn't ruthless enough on Foster - that's about it.You've missed the point.......there are no arseholes or enforcers to select. Thats the issue.
Jon Smit pushes Thorns head into the turf. Brad is having none of it.
He gets a yellow in 2025 for sure, but we aint taking a backwards step.Too many teams know they are not going to get their collars felt by the modern day Allblacks.
As another poster alluded to, tackling guys into touch and then helping them up. Fuck that.
Rub their heads into the dirt. It's a mental game too.
We think we can just out skill everyone. Sometimes you just need to out hunger and out mongrel them.
I used to love the next test match after an Allblacks defeat.
Because nobody puts baby in the corner, twice in a row. We would be fizzing.
The Kapa O Pango game etc.Similarly, within the squad it all seems to be pally pally. There should be an edge. Imagine all these players autobiographies. "yeah we all played playstation and got on great".
The press conferences from our Coaches, Robinson and the players is laced with non committal corporate drivel.
When a ref hatchets us, no-one says anything.
Its infuriating.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life What gets to me most is the lack of ambition with the current custodians of the Black Jersey. There seems to be a belief in AB HQ that if we are third or fourth in the world and hold onto the Bledisloe Cup then that's alright. Bugger that!
Our coaches have lost their belief in polishing rough diamonds into world class players, our administrators seem content to play second fiddle to the Springboks, our players enjoy being legends in their own small country rather than global superstars.
It won't be too long until the fans lose their passion too.
I think a lot of damage has already been done and the rubicon has been crossed.
We have been far too nice on and off the field since 2015, overly embracing the social media age and trying to Harlem Globetrotify the Allblacks with complacent exhibition matches in Chicago, San Diego and Japan.
There should have been blue murder cried after the Lions series in 2017 and similarly during the Irish series in 2022.
We have milquetoast players, coaches, pundits and administrators. Even Robinson didn’t have the bollocks to sack Foster. A lack of ruthlessness from the top down.
The same under performers racking up cap after cap after cap.
Meanwhile Rassie has been bleating about everything, copping bans (a means that justifies his end) acting the maggot with water carriers, strategic injuries, traffic lights, bomb squads and questionable use of the HIA system. All of this will be forgotten in the annals of time. It will show Lions winning coach and two time World Cup winner in the record books. Conversation ended.
He has been ruthless with his squad too, hooking the likes of Libbock before half time in a World Cup game.
His forwards are jagged elbowed brutes who all pile in at the first sign of a scuffle.
We have a bunch of selfie taking, “chur bro”, “I’d like to thank the lord above” (after we have been spanked) players who just want to be everyone’s mates.
Bar Rieko Ioane.
He’s no centre but he knows his fucking assignment as an Allblack and a competitor.
Look at Bundee Aki and James Lowe. Two mouthpieces who are in the middle of everything.
If they had stayed in NZ, they would have ended up just like the rest of our soy boys.
It’s cultural.
I’m only 40, wouldn’t consider myself a dinosaur yet, but dare I say it we need a few more fucking arseholes in the organisation from the top down.
i got a bit of a roasting when i pointed this out...but i was annoyed/surprised after the home loss to Ireland and Ardie coming into the press conference and when asked said they didnt know it was the first home loss and series loss to ireland, didnlt know the history etc, became very clear its a pay check for lots of these guys, theyre not rugby die hards like those of the past...and i cant help but think that feeds into this drop in passion
