All Blacks v France
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I'm watching the game again and in the 16th minute, with New Zealand on the attack in the French 22, Amashukeli penalizes Savea for going off his feet in the clean. The only problem is that Savea was only off his feet because Mauvaka trips him up when rolling away.
The protocol has been pretty clear for quite a while now: first you look at the actions of the tackler before you take the breakdown contest into account. Amashukeli consistently ignored the actions of the tacklers throughout the game, which I think better suited the French breakdown tactics than it did the ABs'.
I don't think it necessarily lost New Zealand the game but it's more than a bit confusing when you have such different approaches from a ref on a week-to-week basis.
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@Mauss He's a wild referee. I remember he officiated the RWC warm up game between England and Wales. 3 yellow cards and 1 red card. I remember thinking some of the cards were an absolute joke then too.
His interpretation of the maul was hilarious, as if he was guessing, and didn't call stopped/use at all, even though the French were retreating. Then pings Taylor for, well nothing.
The last 5 minutes I don't think he made any calls, instead relied of the assistants and TMO, almost as if he choked. He isn't good enough simply. McKenzie went down on a kick, French player jumped on him as he's on the floor and he didn't call it in, he had to be told!
The French knew how to use him too, and although I can't find any online data it wouldn't surprise me if his regular position is a referee in the Top 14. We'll see how France goes next year with hopefully, some Southern Hemisphere referees.
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Meh, the ref certainly isn't the reason why we lost that game. We'd only be happy with any ref if we had a lopsided 18-3 penalty count in our favour or something close to that.
Ruben Love for fullback? With Jordan back to the wing? Or do we need an injury for Love to get a go?
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@African-Monkey probably need an injury to BB, Jordan, Perofeta and Fihaki.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
@African-Monkey probably need an injury to BB, Jordan, Perofeta and Fihaki.
And it's probably the thing that annoys me the most. A lot of the changes are reactionary, when it's obvious that certain guys should be bought in. Yes, we've improved slowly as the year has gone on, but if injury didn't occur, we'd most likely be stuck with some of the same carthorses that we had at the start of the year (Sititi, Tosi, and Lakai being perfect examples of the guys we have waiting in the wings if given the opportunity).
Even in the 2nd test this year, Christie had done his dash, but was kept out there for longer than he should have until he hobbled off injured, Ratima came on and changed the game.
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The ref was fine. Let’s not become Irish.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v France:
The ref was fine. Let’s not become Irish.
I feel like all the posts I read are saying he's not the reason we lost? People are still allowed to say he's shit, without becoming sexface.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v France:
The ref was fine. Let’s not become Irish.
I feel like all the posts I read are saying he's not the reason we lost? People are still allowed to say he's shit, without becoming sexface.
I thought Nic Berry was worse than this Georgian fella last week.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v France:
The ref was fine. Let’s not become Irish.
My comment on Amashukeli wasn’t intended as a slight against him. I also think it’s possible to talk about refereeing without it turning into ref bashing.
A ref’s interpretation of the breakdown is always important but I feel like it gains more weight when you have two opposing teams with very different playing philosophies, like New Zealand and France have. Whereas the French forward pack generally plays like a tight, cohesive unit (where they are always within a 20 metre radius of each other), the ABs like to keep width and have forwards and backs dispersed across a backline.
That also means that the tackle area becomes very important for a side like the All Blacks, as they try to limit the number of players committed to securing the ruck. When the tackle area is a mess, and you have, for example, only Will Jordan and Sevu Reece available to clean out in a ten metre radius, then it’s easy to see how that quickly turns into a problem.
That being said, there’s certainly a case to be made that the current game plan isn’t working when facing sides like France and the Springboks. In all three tests, New Zealand lost the game through their inability to win the breakdown, both on attack and defence, with France and South Africa finding it too easy to generate scores through the pick and go when within the NZ 22. In all three tests, Robertson’s solution – of running them off their feet by keeping the ball – hasn’t worked. And you’d have to wonder whether he should radically alter his approach to these teams, for example, by picking a bigger pack and by tightening the game plan.
The current game plan can still work, I think, but then you have to have a number of strike moves off of lineout and scrum which almost guarantee points (similar to how France had that maul try with the early shift up their sleeve). Currently, the ABs are getting too little purchase of those attacks for them to win these test matches.
So again, definitely not intending to bash the ref. Simply trying to get some more insight on what went wrong against France.
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@Billy-Tell Apologies, I didn't mean to sound like an Irish casual!
I think Razor desperately needs the international season to be over so he can go away and ponder his next moves. I dearly hope he has used this season to feel out what he's up against and what he was left to work with.
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@Halfback
We are right up there with the best in the world. Not too much to worry about.
Forwards are more important in the game and when you add in Lakai and Holland we are sweet. Then you add in Roigard and DMac and we are super sweet.
The boss got one position glaringly wrong IMO.
Backs are the work on for 2025 -
@sparky At the stadium it was fun.
Music, DJ, crowd video interaction and genuine bonhomie -
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v France:
@Halfback
We are right up therewithlosing to the best in the world. And Argentina. Not too much to worry about.fixed.
The boss got one position glaringly wrong IMO.
10? 15? 7? 14? 13? 12? Bench?
Backs are the work on for 2025
And the bench, perhaps. But it's getting better.
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Best Rugby Stadium in the world and the French really know how to organise a sporting event.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France:
@junior said in All Blacks v France:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v France:
@LagerLout said in All Blacks v France:
We are miles off being a good team, personnel wise and strategy wise. We were bloody slow to the ruck in the second half. Our wingers are bollock slow. The only places we look dangerous are in in the starting front and back rows, the rest of it we are struggling. Feels like a bleak WC cycle to me. We had so much talent and where is it now.
I have pretty much the completely opposite view. NZ lost to one of the top four teams in the world at their fortress (and it is a fortress, the loudest and most partisan atmosphere you'll get at any ground around the world).
NZ have a great front row with Samisoni Taukei'aho still to return, some very good young loose forwards, two very promising halfbacks in Roigard and Ratima.
There are a few issues across the line-up but Razor will probably push the boat out a little more next year. There's a few pieces of deadweight that probably need to be moved on but already Cane and Perenara will be gone next year, Reece has probably played his last game in black, and there are a few more players who will be under a lot of pressure. It bodes well for the future, even if they didn't always get the biscuits this year.
Bolded bit - agree with this a lot but I am not sure that we are playing to this area of strength. We are still trying to play the game like we have the world's best midfield and back 3, and a relatively weak but mobile pack, which we clearly do not.
If Razor has half a brain, over the next 3 years, we will become much more a 10 man rugby team, that scores tries off mauls, close in running and chaos ball counter attacks.
I would agree our best moments are when our forwards are smashing it up the guts, along with strong LO defence and strong scrummaging
Ah, what? Our only created try today was offload a-go-go, lots of passes around the back, and an almost intercepted loop pass.
When we were on top we played out the back almost exclusively.The problem came when France got their hands in the ball our pack had no answers for their round the corner at pace forwards game.
Then in the second half when France adapted and stopped missing tackles, and turned evey ruck in to a shit fight, we didn't adapt.
Amen to this. When France had the ball and played up the guts, they fucking bullied us. Constant momentum.
Us, not so much. All our metres pretty much made out wide, which again highlights the stupidity of picking Barrett B. -
@booboo said in All Blacks v France:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v France:
Razor fucked around and found out
2-0 on a NH tour and he changes the team
That’s Wales level dumb
Who did he change? Roigard and ?
Edit: oh yeah, Taylor
And BB for DMac
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v France:
@booboo said in All Blacks v France:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v France:
Razor fucked around and found out
2-0 on a NH tour and he changes the team
That’s Wales level dumb
Who did he change? Roigard and ?
Edit: oh yeah, Taylor
And BB for DMac
Noted
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v France:
@sparky At the stadium it was fun.
Music, DJ, crowd video interaction and genuine bonhomieI like the French. A general respect and admiration for the All Blacks, good sorts
