B&I Lions 2017
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@hydro11 said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
@hydro11 said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
@mariner4life said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale you know what? it is your (NH rugby) fault. Move the 6N? fuck that! Shorten/adjust the club season? No, it makes all the money!
Every time this global season shit comes up (and this is linked to it) the Northern Unions and their fans basically say "fuck off, you change".
We have one decent tradition left in rugby, and you fluffybunnies want to shorten it so you can play 600 club games a season. I'm pretty sure you would only be happy with a 3 week, 3 test tour. It's not just the money to us down here, it's a fucking occasion, one that is eagerly looked forward to for 12 years.
And your rugby is shit.
Lovely rant. Except it's not an accurate picture of what's actually occurring in NH rugby. There is more than one union besides English rugby and its club season.
A bit of research on facts would show you that the 6N unions are split on moving the 6N, some want to move it 3 weeks, others want to move it to April/May as a finale to the season and then lead straight into June tests. Others want it to stay where it is. It is the Six Nations that makes money, followed by November Internationals.
The club game makes money in England and France. It makes sweet fuck all in Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Italy. Super Rugby makes 100x times more than what the PRO12 does. To try and make it more valuable, the PRO12 is planning to shorten their club season by creating a conference league and expanding it to include teams from US, Europe. They want to have the club season (league and Euro cups) finish by end of March.
And yes, it isn't just about the whole of NH rugby changing to suit SH schedules. Fuck that! There's more of us. So you'd (SH rugby) better be willing to make some compromises too - either individually or collectively.
And whilst I agree with you that it is an occasion, I'm simply saying that putting in a match to play 5 days after the league finals are held, when everyone involved (both SH and NH unions ) knew in advance that it was going to be compromised is just plain stupid, and it shortchanges the fans (and the players). 9 matches would still be a longer Lions tour than there has been for quite some time. But no, Tew & Co want to squeeze the last drop out of the Lions because it's likely this will be the last time the Lions will tour like this.
And your rugby is shit. The same team keep winning.
This just isn't true. The 2013 Lions Tour was 10 games. The 2009 Lions Tour was 10 games. Tours to Australia have generally been a game or two shorter (compare 2001 with 2005 or 1997). So it has absolutely nothing to do with Tew and Co. This is just how long Lions Tours are. The 2013 tour started on 1 June. The 2017 tour will start on 3 June. On 3 June, the Lions will play the NZ Barbarians which will have no Super Rugby players as Super Rugby will still be going that weekend.
You mean Super Rugby will still be playing whilst the Lions are touring? Outrageous - why can't they shift the season back, etc, etc,,etc?
Yes I know that some previous tours had 10 matches. And the Lions keep doing the same thing, and the host union keeps accepting it. And then we get faux outrage from the host union and their media every time it happens as if it's just happening for the first time and no one knew about this beforehand.
Ditto for the 3 test series. Tew & Co within SANZAR wanted to have three test tours because the NH teams being sent were second string - according to them - and they wanted a series that would draw greater crowds, create excitement, be more competitive, etc. Hence why we got the 2012-2019 test series schedule. So far the NZ ledger reads 12-0. I'd be interested to know if revenue improved at all as a result.
Now SANZAAR wants the June tests moved to July because the NH unions are messing up the Super Rugby season.
The global season needs fixing - pronto.
In 2013 Super Rugby games were played concurrently with the beginning of the Lions Tour. What is the faux outrage from the host union. I don't really understand your argument? You were earlier arguing that the series favoured us and it was a ten match series because of Steve Tew and now Tew and our media are outraged about it?
I think the justification for the 3 match series were that it would be a return to meaningful tours. A one off game just doesn't mean that much. I don't know about revenue but as a rugby fan, I prefer the tours.
As to the global season, I'm ambivalent. Stopping Super Rugby works fantastically well for me. I like that it breaks up the test season for us. If the NH wants to change their calendar they should have at it. I think our calendar is fine.
Yep that about sums it up.
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@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
@hydro11 said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
@mariner4life said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale you know what? it is your (NH rugby) fault. Move the 6N? fuck that! Shorten/adjust the club season? No, it makes all the money!
Every time this global season shit comes up (and this is linked to it) the Northern Unions and their fans basically say "fuck off, you change".
We have one decent tradition left in rugby, and you fluffybunnies want to shorten it so you can play 600 club games a season. I'm pretty sure you would only be happy with a 3 week, 3 test tour. It's not just the money to us down here, it's a fucking occasion, one that is eagerly looked forward to for 12 years.
And your rugby is shit.
Lovely rant. Except it's not an accurate picture of what's actually occurring in NH rugby. There is more than one union besides English rugby and its club season.
A bit of research on facts would show you that the 6N unions are split on moving the 6N, some want to move it 3 weeks, others want to move it to April/May as a finale to the season and then lead straight into June tests. Others want it to stay where it is. It is the Six Nations that makes money, followed by November Internationals.
The club game makes money in England and France. It makes sweet fuck all in Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Italy. Super Rugby makes 100x times more than what the PRO12 does. To try and make it more valuable, the PRO12 is planning to shorten their club season by creating a conference league and expanding it to include teams from US, Europe. They want to have the club season (league and Euro cups) finish by end of March.
And yes, it isn't just about the whole of NH rugby changing to suit SH schedules. Fuck that! There's more of us. So you'd (SH rugby) better be willing to make some compromises too - either individually or collectively.
And whilst I agree with you that it is an occasion, I'm simply saying that putting in a match to play 5 days after the league finals are held, when everyone involved (both SH and NH unions ) knew in advance that it was going to be compromised is just plain stupid, and it shortchanges the fans (and the players). 9 matches would still be a longer Lions tour than there has been for quite some time. But no, Tew & Co want to squeeze the last drop out of the Lions because it's likely this will be the last time the Lions will tour like this.
And your rugby is shit. The same team keep winning.
This just isn't true. The 2013 Lions Tour was 10 games. The 2009 Lions Tour was 10 games. Tours to Australia have generally been a game or two shorter (compare 2001 with 2005 or 1997). So it has absolutely nothing to do with Tew and Co. This is just how long Lions Tours are. The 2013 tour started on 1 June. The 2017 tour will start on 3 June. On 3 June, the Lions will play the NZ Barbarians which will have no Super Rugby players as Super Rugby will still be going that weekend.
You mean Super Rugby will still be playing whilst the Lions are touring? Outrageous - why can't they shift the season back, etc, etc,,etc?
Yes I know that some previous tours had 10 matches. And the Lions keep doing the same thing, and the host union keeps accepting it. And then we get faux outrage from the host union and their media every time it happens as if it's just happening for the first time and no one knew about this beforehand.
Ditto for the 3 test series. Tew & Co within SANZAR wanted to have three test tours because the NH teams being sent were second string - according to them - and they wanted a series that would draw greater crowds, create excitement, be more competitive, etc. Hence why we got the 2012-2019 test series schedule. So far the NZ ledger reads 12-0. I'd be interested to know if revenue improved at all as a result.
Now SANZAAR wants the June tests moved to July because the NH unions are messing up the Super Rugby season.
The global season needs fixing - pronto.
This is a strange post. I don't think there's any outrage from nzr or the nz media on the makeup of the tour. Everyone I've spoken to is looking forward to it, and we hope that the UK and Ireland are too.
Anything less than 10 games would be incredibly disappointing - of course all the Super teams + the Maoris should get a game. Including the Barbarians is really a warm up to the tour and for the Lions sole benefit.
As for 3 test June series, this seems to be working well for us. I assumed it was ok for the NH as well, but happy to be corrected. Got to be better than one off games, surely? Some more tour games would be good too, but after the Wales - Chiefs game this year I suspect we've seen the last of them.
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@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
Jamie Cudmore asked them nicely....
That reminds me I really must try and find some of his wine on my trip to Europe next year....
![alt text]http://www.domainedecudmore.com/uploads/1/1/6/0/11608633/1407060226.jpg(image url)
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I love this shot of Gatland watching:
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@MN5 said in B&I Lions 2017:
Can't he just watch it as a normal fan and not wear the obnoxious tracky and draw attention to himself ? he's just asking for unwanted attention dressing in that way.
He's just asking for every aspect of his trip home to NZ to be paid for & fly 1st class both ways dressing that way...
On a related note, Jimmy Goperth scored the winning try for Wasps this weekend
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@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
He's just asking for every aspect of his trip home to NZ to be paid for & fly 1st class both ways dressing that way...
A smart move! BTW Gatland wasn't wearing his Lions jacket when Smith interviewed him pre-game.
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It appears that the discussion on the new "global season" has reached a compromised solution.
SANZAAR gets the mid-year tests shifted to July, and the NH seasons will now start later and finish in June.
Agreement that no mid-year tests to be held in the year following a RWC, which, if memory serves, tends to be the best time for NH to get wins down south.
Super Rugby comp will now be able to run uninterrupted.
Six Nations won't move due to England and France holding sway so PRO12 plans to have a shorter league season that finishes in March are now buggered.
Lions tour in 2021 will now be held in July and August apparently.
This is the heads of a draft agreement to be signed off at next pow-wow in November.
Nothing reported on revenue-sharing issue. Japan and US/Canada will get more Tier 1 opposition in the new WR Test Schedule for 2020 onwards.
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It's a pity the 6N wouldn't move. But to be expected. I don't think the Pro 12 countries realise that strong international football is the best chance of keeping their players out of England and French club rugby.
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@Billy-Tell said in B&I Lions 2017:
It's a pity the 6N wouldn't move. But to be expected. I don't think the Pro 12 countries realise that strong international football is the best chance of keeping their players out of England and French club rugby.
Football?
Do you mean soccer or rugby? -
From a SANZAAR perspective that is a pretty good result, no? I imagine the no tests post-RWC was a compromise from no tests in a RWC year? Fair's fair the NH lose their EOYT during a RWC season.
Is there anything to stop us inviting teams like USA, Canada, Japan, Samoa, Fiji or Tonga? We shoehorned Canada in during 2007, we added a Samoa fixture very late in 2008 and Fiji in 2011 and 2015. They could also play a standard TRC to fill the gap if SANZAAR is agreeable (or at least a third Bledisloe). If all else fails they could play a probables vs possibles game and get a gate out of that.
I seriously doubt Tew is going to light 3 tests worth of revenue on fire and have a three week hole in July without a back up plan.
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@MajorRage I'm disappointed they didn't move it. Weather is an enormous contributor to the dire, sh1t rugby often served up. You can see this by how much better the games often are in the final weekend vs the openers (to be fair this is augmented by the fact often teams need to score a certain no. points to break a deadlock on the table, so chuck it round more - which is why the 6N should have bonus point, but that's for another thread ...)
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@rotated said in B&I Lions 2017:
From a SANZAAR perspective that is a pretty good result, no? I imagine the no tests post-RWC was a compromise from no tests in a RWC year? Fair's fair the NH lose their EOYT during a RWC season.
Is there anything to stop us inviting teams like USA, Canada, Japan, Samoa, Fiji or Tonga? We shoehorned Canada in during 2007, we added a Samoa fixture very late in 2008 and Fiji in 2011 and 2015. They could also play a standard TRC to fill the gap if SANZAAR is agreeable (or at least a third Bledisloe). If all else fails they could play a probables vs possibles game and get a gate out of that.
I seriously doubt Tew is going to light 3 tests worth of revenue on fire and have a three week hole in July without a back up plan.
Isn't there always a standard TRC and 3rd Bledisloe in the year following the RWC? The shortened TRC (with 2 Bledisloe games) isn't that usually before the RWC?
As to inviting the countries you mention, don't these countries have a Pacific Nations Cup to play? Not sure when in the rugby season ...
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@Stargazer said in B&I Lions 2017:
@rotated said in B&I Lions 2017:
From a SANZAAR perspective that is a pretty good result, no? I imagine the no tests post-RWC was a compromise from no tests in a RWC year? Fair's fair the NH lose their EOYT during a RWC season.
Is there anything to stop us inviting teams like USA, Canada, Japan, Samoa, Fiji or Tonga? We shoehorned Canada in during 2007, we added a Samoa fixture very late in 2008 and Fiji in 2011 and 2015. They could also play a standard TRC to fill the gap if SANZAAR is agreeable (or at least a third Bledisloe). If all else fails they could play a probables vs possibles game and get a gate out of that.
I seriously doubt Tew is going to light 3 tests worth of revenue on fire and have a three week hole in July without a back up plan.
Isn't there always a standard TRC and 3rd Bledisloe in the year following the RWC? The shortened TRC (with 2 Bledisloe games) isn't that usually before the RWC?
As to inviting the countries you mention, don't these countries have a Pacific Nations Cup to play? Not sure when in the rugby season ...
The Pacific Nations Cup usually takes place in the June test period in a non-RWC year but I think they'd be able to push it back a bit if it got them some games against the big guns. I like the idea, though I'd rather see Georgia tour here than USA or Canada...
Very happy they're going to push the June tests back to July and give us an uninterrupted Super season.
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So revised schedule will look something like this:
2019
Aug - RC and 6N warm up matches
Sep/Oct RWC Japan
Nov -SANZAAR finishes season
NH clubs continue season2020
Feb - Super Rugby starts
Six Nations starts
Mar - Six Nations ends
June - Super Rugby/PRO12/Top14/Prem finish
NH season ends
July - SANZAAR play tier 2 nations?? Or start RC earlier?Sept - Top14 starts
Oct - Prem/PRO 12 starts
Nov - test matches
Dec - SH season ends, NH continues2021
June - SR and NH clubs finish.
July - Lions tour to Argentina/Japan maybe??2022
June - finish
July - NH teams tour SANZAAR unions2023
June - finish
July - no tour - start RC
Aug warm up matches for NH/complete RC
Sept - start RWC
