Olympics Thread

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="606786" data-time="1471597052">
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Didn't that Japanese runner blow up? If Carson had gone out early, then he would have wasted energy and been run down easily. There is a reason people don't race like that.
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why would it be a waste? what is he saving it for, the post-match rooting? 
it's something that has always confused me. there are necessarily always a number of guys in the field who have to know they are not comparatively fast finishers, or for whom qualifying for the final would be an achievement in itself, so why are they not setting a faster pace?

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="606786" data-time="1471597052">
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Didn't that Japanese runner blow up? If Carson had gone out early, then he would have wasted energy and been run down easily. There is a reason people don't race like that.
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Here's Filbert Bayi winning the 1500 metres at the Christchurch Commonwealth games in 1974 - he set a world record. 
 
Now if you're a favourite with a vicious sprint I wouldn't recommend this. But, if you're Hamish Carson? What do you have to lose? The way he ran it he never gave himself a chance. In fact, as an unknown - there's a good chance the big guns would let you run away and qualify.
 
The Japanese lady qualified for the final. She won't win, but she qualified.
 
I won the Canterbury Country under 14 or 15 1500 Athletics sports using exactly this tactic! :)

hydro11

Here's Filbert Bayi winning the 1500 metres at the Christchurch Commonwealth games in 1974 - he set a world record. 
 
Now if you're a favourite with a vicious sprint I wouldn't recommend this. But, if you're Hamish Carson? What do you have to lose? The way he ran it he never gave himself a chance. In fact, as an unknown - there's a good chance the big guns would let you run away and qualify.
 
The Japanese lady qualified for the final. She won't win, but she qualified.
 
I won the Canterbury Country under 14 or 15 1500 Athletics sports using exactly this tactic! :)
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You mentioned earlier that Carson's PB is 3:36. Are you aware of the circumstances in which he set that? <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='

'>The video is here</a>. Willis rabbited the first 1300metres. Carson just had to hold that pace and then sprint for 200 metres. You can see him in the purple in that video. Julian Matthews is also running.
 
The reason Carson didn't do what you suggested is because it would be a terrible strategy. It's all very well to say someone should have no regrets but unfortunately that was impossible. If Carson picked your strategy and bombed, maybe he would regret not hanging back in the field? If Carson went out on his own he would just needlessly tire himself out. Yes, he might make it a good pace but he would just pace everyone else to a good position. Carson simply is not good enough to time trial himself to a time of 3:40. His only chance of getting that time was sitting back in the pack and getting a good kick. Carson is no Bayi.
 
You should also watch this video of <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='

'>Carson out kicking Matthews at the Nationals</a>. Perfect race strategy from the Scottish runners.

hydro11

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="606794" data-time="1471597765">
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why would it be a waste? what is he saving it for, the post-match rooting? 
it's something that has always confused me. there are necessarily always a number of guys in the field who have to know they are not comparatively fast finishers, or for whom qualifying for the final would be an achievement in itself, so why are they not setting a faster pace?
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He was not saving anything for the final. He was saving what he had for the end of the race

Rembrandt

How the fuck do people get into race walking? It just looks completely ridiculous

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rembrandt" data-cid="606846" data-time="1471606383">
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How the fuck do people get into race walking? It just looks completely ridiculous
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i've always assumed that it must be over-competitive cockheads who are shithouse at running.

mariner4life

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="606852" data-time="1471607471">
i've always assumed that it must be over-competitive cockheads who are shithouse at running.</blockquote>
 
That's beautiful

TeWaio

There are two reasons people don't try to front-run a race at a (more) even pace: 
Firstly, you provide your opponents with drafting. Like a cycling peloton, tucking in behind someone saves a lot in terms of aerodynamic drag. Drag scales with velocity squared, so although the %effort saved by drafting in running is substantially less than cycling (I've heard people estimate 30% cycling and 15% for running, which seems about right), for elite level running it certainly still makes a difference.
 
Secondly, it is easier psychologically to chase someone down than to front run (or run a solo time trial). By leading a race out you put a target on your back; people behind you end up running a PB trying to chase you down.
 
This actually partially answers why people become race-walkers: good distance runners at 5k/10k who happen to have no sprint finish often end up as race walkers. Front-running as a tactic works in race walking as you can't change pace as easy (so no sprint finish) and the absolute speed is lower, so drafting effects are minimal.

canefan

Lydia makes a birdie on the first hole of the third round. Hopefully she can get hot with the putter and make a big move today

Chris B.

I understand these things.
 
But the counter is - if you sit back and sit back - knowing that there's plenty of guys who have much better kicks than you - you're not giving yourself any chance. For the top guys who are going to fight for the medals, a key objective is to conserve as much energy as possible, so jogging the first half of the race and turning it into an 800 metre race - knowing they've got the top end speed to cover just about anyone - is ideal.
 
But it's the worst possible thing if you're someone like Carson who's going to be on the fringe of the qualifiers - unless you've got a cannonball finish.
 
He'll have finished that race pretty fresh - because at his fastest he can be 100 metres further up the track and - in fact - with a personal best time that is fast enough to have won any of the heats. If I was him - and surely his major objective was making the cut - I wouldn't have wanted to come home thinking I could have left a lot more out there.
 
So I'm sticking with my assessment that he - and quite a lot of others - ran timid races.

Bones

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="606870" data-time="1471612110">
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He'll have finished that race pretty fresh - because at his fastest he can be 100 metres further up the track and - in fact - with a personal best time that is fast enough to have won any of the heats.
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That's the thing though - was that PB made when he used those tactics, or was he following?

TeWaio

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="606870" data-time="1471612110">
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I understand these things.
 
But the counter is - if you sit back and sit back - knowing that there's plenty of guys who have much better kicks than you - you're not giving yourself any chance. For the top guys who are going to fight for the medals, a key objective is to conserve as much energy as possible, so jogging the first half of the race and turning it into an 800 metre race - knowing they've got the top end speed to cover just about anyone - is ideal.
 
But it's the worst possible thing if you're someone like Carson who's going to be on the fringe of the qualifiers - unless you've got a cannonball finish.
 
He'll have finished that race pretty fresh - because at his fastest he can be 100 metres further up the track and - in fact - with a personal best time that is fast enough to have won any of the heats. If I was him - and surely his major objective was making the cut - I wouldn't have wanted to come home thinking I could have left a lot more out there.
 
So I'm sticking with my assessment that he - and quite a lot of others - ran timid races. 
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You missed the earlier point about his fastest time being set in a race where he was dragged around by someone else front running - in that instance, an actual pacemaker who was paid to do the job. He can't run that time himself from the front. Read hydro's #1460 post and watch the video.

mimic

the womans k4 500 look pretty good.. good chance of a medal

Billy Tell

This is a bloody frustrating game of hockey

Since when does another country wear black ðŸ˜¥
we are owning this game but can't score for love nor money 
Prediction: Germany score a goal from nowhere to nick the bronze medal. 
There is still hope: the ladies aren't wearing Cardiff 2007 grey tops.

Frye

In better news.... 
Lydia was 6 under through the first 9. 
Currently sitting tied for 2nd, 3 off the lead.

Bones

Bah. Germany win, 2-1. We had about 357 shots on goal.
 
Does anyone know why one of our girls was wearing a red top at the end?

Frye

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="606881" data-time="1471623927">
Bah. Germany win, 2-1. We had about 357 shots on goal. 
Does anyone know why one of our girls was wearing a red top at the end?</blockquote>
 
Was the goalie up searching for an equaliser?

Bones

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="606882" data-time="1471624140">
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Was the goalie up searching for an equaliser?
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I thought it might be the goalie, but didn't notice any padding or anything so thought it may be something else?

Mokey

Yay that Richie was safely away cursing the chick sticks, and Lydia could shine. A hole in one! She sure picked the right day for a sizzling six under.
 
Congrats to the K4 girls too, making their final.
 
The less said about the hockey the better. I feel very sorry for Kayla Whitelock, that is a shitty way to go out. Hockey NZ needs to invest in a mental skills coach like the Black Caps did, or if they already have one, that person needs to be used as an unpadded hockey ball stopper, because they fucking suck. The mental fragility displayed at this tournament by both the mens and womens teams has been pretty awful to watch. Especially the chicks, who we all thought had a real chance (and they did). Fucking Germans! (not really, the men and women just played a whole lot better when it counted.)

canefan

Lydia went into beast mode, 4 birdies and a hole in one? FFS! She's right in it now, go for gold lyds!

The Silver Fern

Olympics Thread