All Blacks vs Wales Test #2
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="590003" data-time="1466409543">
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<p>I reckon he was catching it if Williams wasnt there </p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.worldrugbyvids.com/index.php/2016/06/19/wiliams-naholo-collision/'>http://www.worldrugbyvids.com/index.php/2016/06/19/wiliams-naholo-collision/</a></p>
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<p>That's a bit like saying "he would have kicked the ball if X player's head wasn't there". Williams was there. He was there first and had actually caught the ball. Reckless from Naholo and lucky not to see yellow under the current interpretations - which, i admit are a mess.</p> -
<p>That's hilarious. I reckon Barrett is a 100% goalkicker, it's just the posts don't move when he kicks it.</p>
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<p>Plus, Wayne Barnes probably gets a pass for the AWJ try, not a forward pass as if the guy who passed it had kicked it....voila! Not a forward pass. :)</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="590005" data-time="1466410478">
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<p>That's a bit like saying "he would have kicked the ball if X player's head wasn't there". Williams was there. He was there first and had actually caught the ball. Reckless from Naholo and lucky not to see yellow under the current interpretations - which, i admit are a mess.</p>
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<p> I was replying to canefan who said he was miles from it and had no chance of catching it </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="590014" data-time="1466413517"><p>
I was replying to canefan who said he was miles from it and had no chance of catching it<br></p></blockquote>He didn't have a chance to catch it, Williams was there in position and Naholo was late. I don't see why it matters if he could have caught it if Williams wasn't there because he was -
<p>I guess it depends what we are debating , my point was I dont think it was intentional , </p>
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<p>He was running an angle that he thought he could catch it , if his eyes were on the ball only , he probably didnt see Williams untill it was too late , </p>
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<p>When williams caught it , his feet had already left the ground in his own attempt to catch it , </p>
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<p>Im not sure at what point he pulls out if he is looking at the ball only </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="590018" data-time="1466414895">
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<p>He didn't have a chance to catch it, Williams was there in position and Naholo was late. I don't see why it matters if he could have caught it if Williams wasn't there because he was</p>
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<p>I agree, it doesn't.</p>
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<p>Most guys now are taught to jump no matter what, so they jump even when they are far too late & have zero chance of actually contesting, its cynical & dangerous & should be pinged. The application is usually "did he have any chance of contesting? No? Penalty. In doing so did he put the other player at risk of serious injury (ie he landed on his head)? Yes? Yellow card."</p>
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<p>If you listen to the ref mike that exactly the process he goes through (that may have been tough on NZ commentary with Marshall shouting "whoom-PA!" over the top & Nisbo saying "well, whats happened there? That doesn't look good, I wonder what the outcome of this will be" as the ref explains it all.)</p>
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<p>Genuine 50/50's are not usually penalised, Naholo's was not a 50/50, he was late, had no chance & just auto-jumped because that what they get told in practice. The one later on was an actual 50/50.</p>
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<p>In contrast Ben Smith regularly sees he won't get there in time to contest, checks his run makes the tackle the second the guy hits the deck & rolls him. McCaw used to do the same. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="590023" data-time="1466416139"><p>I guess it depends what we are debating , my point was I dont think it was intentional , <br><br>
He was running an angle that he thought he could catch it , if his eyes were on the ball only , he probably didnt see Williams untill it was too late , <br><br>
When williams caught it , his feet had already left the ground in his own attempt to catch it , <br><br>
Im not sure at what point he pulls out if he is looking at the ball only</p></blockquote>
That's just it though. It's reckless to only have eyes on the ball (which sounds dubious to me anyway - do we think our top players don't have peripheral vision and train that aspect). -
<p>ok ill accept defeat and move on
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<p>You get forgiven purely on the quality of your avatar</p>
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<p>You leave Fridge Raider out of this.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="590046" data-time="1466421160">
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<p>Sorry ... back on topic ... do we ban jumping for the ball in the air?</p>
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<p>How do they deal with this in Aussie Rules?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="590046" data-time="1466421160">
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<p>Sorry ... back on topic ... do we ban jumping for the ball in the air?</p>
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<p>I can't find video of the challenge, but IIRC Naholo didn't even manage to grab a piece of the ball. You've at least got to get some of it IMHO to make it a bonafide 50/50</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="590046" data-time="1466421160">
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<p>Sorry ... back on topic ... do we ban jumping for the ball in the air?</p>
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<p>That's a difficult one isn't it? I sort of think the laws as they are are probably as near to what we want as is possible but the interpretation of them is such a grey area. Someone above mentioned how good Ben Smith's judgement seems to be in respect of when to contest and when to wait and tackle as the jumper lands. You'd think that all professional players would have a degree of the same good judgement. If that was the case we'd see far fewer occurrences like the Williams/Naholo one. It really would then just be down to the times when there is a proper contest.</p>
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<p>So. Short answer is I don't know.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="590051" data-time="1466421707">
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<p>I can't find video of the challenge, but IIRC Naholo didn't even manage to grab a piece of the ball. You've at least got to get some of it IMHO to make it a bonafide 50/50</p>
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<p>Disagree. You can position yourself perfectly and someone else can get some part of their body in the way.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="590056" data-time="1466422322">
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<p>Disagree. You can position yourself perfectly and someone else can get some part of their body in the way.</p>
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<p>I'm happy to agree to disagree. Challenge was sloppy though, it deserved the penalty. It helped that Williams went down like he got shot but so did our man</p> -
<p>I think it is a grey area , is it the action or the intention that is punished , </p>
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<p>How many times do you hear commentators say , but his eyes are on the ball only , </p>
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<p>Is that actually relevant or not , ive got no idea ? </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="590059" data-time="1466422483">
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<p>I think it is a grey area , is it the action or the intention that is punished , </p>
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<p>How many times do you hear commentators say , but his eyes are on the ball only , </p>
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<p>Is that actually relevant or not , ive got no idea ? </p>
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<p>It is grey. I can only give it the eye test and at the time it looked bad to me</p>
