All Blacks 2025
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I also assume Jordie Barratt will require significant time off once the European season finishes - he will have had a 15 month season after all.
Great opportunity for a 12 - Lam, Higgins, Tupeea to stake a claim for that 12 berth. I’m not sure I want to see Leinart Brown come in until Barrett gets back. That would be a waste’s opportunity to blood someone new.
I imagine Barrett will be back in early Sept or the start of TRC? Any one know what the timeframe looks like?
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
I also assume Jordie Barratt will require significant time off once the European season finishes - he will have had a 15 month season after all.
Great opportunity for a 12 - Lam, Higgins, Tupeea to stake a claim for that 12 berth. I’m not sure I want to see Leinart Brown come in until Barrett gets back. That would be a waste’s opportunity to blood someone new.
I imagine Barrett will be back in early Sept or the start of TRC? Any one know what the timeframe looks like?
I think Jordie actually leaves Ireland before end of season Grubs, not sure he will be there for finals. Not sure but seem to have something in back of mind as NZR were involved with the contract is some way.
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Hey mate, I had a search for articles on it and the ones that mention the length say it is to the end of the season.
Let’s see. If it was to the end of the season he could have 3 months off, come back for 3 months international season and then have the summer off
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
Holland has 14 years experience of coaching. I’m not really sure what els e he needs to have done to get an international coaching gig.
And Foster prior to getting the job in 2019 had 8 yews international experience plus 8 years as a HC with the Chiefs and 3 years with Waikato, Sometimes you either have it or you don't.
Holland was widely derided on Munster rugby forums because their backline was so one-dimensional and ineffective under his coaching from 2008-2012. He tanked the Hurricanes after Boyd and Plumtree left and the ship only somewhat righted itself in his last season (2023) because of the influence of Tyler Blyeendaal and Jamie McKintosh on the group.
The Hurricanes players were raving about Blyeendaal's coaching and it was evident in 2024 after Holland left when Blyeendaal assumed full control the Hurricanes backline could finally function effectively against the top sides.
They went from finishing 5th on 41 points in 2023 to finishing 1st on 56 points in 2024,
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
Holland has 14 years experience of coaching. I’m not really sure what els e he needs to have done to get an international coaching gig.
And Foster prior to getting the job in 2019 had 8 yews international experience plus 8 years as a HC with the Chiefs and 3 years with Waikato, Sometimes you either have it or you don't.
Holland was widely derided on Munster rugby forums because their backline was so one-dimensional and ineffective under his coaching from 2008-2012. He tanked the Hurricanes after Boyd and Plumtree left and the ship only somewhat righted itself in his last season (2023) because of the influence of Tyler Blyeendaal and Jamie McKintosh on the group.
The Hurricanes players were raving about Blyeendaal's coaching and it was evident in 2024 after Holland left when Blyeendaal assumed full control the Hurricanes backline could finally function effectively against the top sides.
They went from finishing 5th on 41 points in 2023 to finishing 1st on 56 points in 2024,
Difference is Holland is not a head coach. He has small area of responsibility with the AB coaching set up. We all knew Fozzie was not good enough and his reputation was saved when he effectively handed the team over to Schmidt and Ryan. Good team man Fozzie and would be an outstanding team Manager just not a good head coach.
Honestly, I don’t know how good he is. Or how bad he is being away from Nz and if you ask me if I want Brown instead of him I would say yes. Mind you I would have preferred Schmidt instead of razor.
However, he has spent 30 years in pro rugby as a player and then as a coach. There really isn’t anything he doesn’t know at this stage and just because he may not have done as well as a head coach doesn’t mean he can’t be highly effective as an assistant coach.
there is a lot of coaching talent in the AB set up and we have yet to see this best of it on this team. They had a tough first year but there are signs that they are improving and we should be better next year.
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@DaGrubster I want to see some improvement in selection and tactics in 2025
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I want to see some improvement in selection and tactics in 2025
Me too. I thought our tactics were a bit naive in the initial part of the year but we balanced out our approach the longer the year panned out.
I want a more merit based selection approach and want a heavier weighting applied to super rugby form.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I want to see some improvement in selection and tactics in 2025
Me too. I thought our tactics were a bit naive in the initial part of the year but we balanced out our approach the longer the year panned out.
I want a more merit based selection approach and want a heavier weighting applied to super rugby form.
The ABs were always a meritocracy. There was never much room for sentimentality, just ask Buck. I think we agree the ABs don't feel like a meritocracy right now, and it is holding us back
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I want to see some improvement in selection and tactics in 2025
Me too. I thought our tactics were a bit naive in the initial part of the year but we balanced out our approach the longer the year panned out.
I want a more merit based selection approach and want a heavier weighting applied to super rugby form.
The ABs were always a meritocracy. There was never much room for sentimentality, just ask Buck. I think we agree the ABs don't feel like a meritocracy right now, and it is holding us back
I disagree Grubs, I don't think any AB coach doesn't select players that they believe are best for the team or tactics etc they are playing. I don't really think we are almost ever the people to decide who merits selection. The unfortunate thing is most of us pick on emotion (ie favourite players/team etc). And do our selecting from what we see on our tv screens. And Buck was one who said that when he was running a training at our club in Brisbane. No coach will ever pick players he doesn't think will be good for his team, as it's his rep on the line.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I want to see some improvement in selection and tactics in 2025
Me too. I thought our tactics were a bit naive in the initial part of the year but we balanced out our approach the longer the year panned out.
I want a more merit based selection approach and want a heavier weighting applied to super rugby form.
The ABs were always a meritocracy. There was never much room for sentimentality, just ask Buck. I think we agree the ABs don't feel like a meritocracy right now, and it is holding us back
I disagree Grubs, I don't think any AB coach doesn't select players that they believe are best for the team or tactics etc they are playing. I don't really think we are almost ever the people to decide who merits selection. The unfortunate thing is most of us pick on emotion (ie favourite players/team etc). And do our selecting from what we see on our tv screens. And Buck was one who said that when he was running a training at our club in Brisbane. No coach will ever pick players he doesn't think will be good for his team, as it's his rep on the line.
Were you replying to my post there Danny?
I agree that selectors are doing what they think are right for the team as it’s their team and ultimately their reputation , career on the line.
Yes, there is far more that goes into selecting than is armchair selectors think of course, but I have been been been a stakeholder in NZ rugby for decades now and played a little bit as you know. I was never a great rugby player but that doesn’t stop me being able to be pretty knowledgeable about what I am seeing and generally my ‘gut feel’ is fairly accurate. I do tend to overestimate the quality of NZ players still but that is just natural bias I suppose.
The reasoning for my assertion about super rugby is that we seem to be in the mindset that it is not producing players for test rugby. But if we think about the impact some players have had over the last 15months then I think that that it’s produced some pretty exciting talent for the All Blacks over that time.
Razor built his reputation from super rugby so if anyone knows the value of it then it should be him. If he doesn’t think it is a comp that is up to it from a player point of view then what does that say about his coaching achievements?
I get his reasoning for selecting Cane, TJ, Barrett, ALB and they had good games and not so good as results show.
I don’t get his reasoning for pushing a number of Crusader based players for cover/squad players all the time - this is the All Blacks not the cantablacks and it is demoralising for players who aren’t from a certain franchise.
I get it from a coaching point of view - choosing who he has worked with - but it has blown up in his face Very early and his response wise a crusaders coach. It’s a minor quibble but he has to show he has let go of any provincial bias.
I think we have the makings of a very strong AB squad that can go to RWC2027 and a lot of it is in place but I don’t want someone like Love to be held back so we nurse Barrett through another 20 caps etc. be bold, pick players that excel in super rugby and build shared experience together (nothing beats winning and losing together on a journey. Far better than getting experience under another coach. You want a core of players who have gone through it together, learnt together and suffered and celebrated together) and have 30-40 test cap All Blacks that have debuted for him that are then world class by the next World Cup.
That’s my rambling thoughts 👍
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I want to see some improvement in selection and tactics in 2025
Me too. I thought our tactics were a bit naive in the initial part of the year but we balanced out our approach the longer the year panned out.
I want a more merit based selection approach and want a heavier weighting applied to super rugby form.
The ABs were always a meritocracy. There was never much room for sentimentality, just ask Buck. I think we agree the ABs don't feel like a meritocracy right now, and it is holding us back
I disagree Grubs, I don't think any AB coach doesn't select players that they believe are best for the team or tactics etc they are playing. I don't really think we are almost ever the people to decide who merits selection. The unfortunate thing is most of us pick on emotion (ie favourite players/team etc). And do our selecting from what we see on our tv screens. And Buck was one who said that when he was running a training at our club in Brisbane. No coach will ever pick players he doesn't think will be good for his team, as it's his rep on the line.
Whilst I have no doubt Razor like any coach is selecting the team he believes is best - that doesn't necessarily mean his selection instincts/methodology is strong/correct.
Razor may have access to a lot more information behind his decision making than the fans but ultimately he is judged by the play on the field - that's the arbiter of truth.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
Absolutely gobsmacked at this blind defence of the coaches. Unbelievable.
Back to true form. On ya Dan.
Bones that's not blind defence, not saying they alwaysd right, but only an idiot thinks any coach wouldn't pick who he (or she) doesn't pick who they think is best for what he wants the team to do. It's their reputation they rying to build etc. Every person on here that has coached I guarantee picked players THEY thought was best for team.
Mater that's not blind defence , but just realsism, and knowing almost all people including coaches have an ego. I know I did
F*** me I would of had a different coach of AB if I had say, not saying I right or wrong, but how the hell is that blindly defending coach. -
@DaGrubster , mate I was just saying the idea that anyone doesn't select on merit is wrong. Not sure what they use , or saying they should or shouldn't use Super form.
I don't believe players are knowingly selected for sentimental reasons. I looked at people who rubbished why TJP and Cane were selected this season and said it was sentimental etc. I personally would of picked them both as I thought they were within the best for their positions when they picked. .I perhaps am not right, but I say that from what I think. I didn't agree with all AB selections, but tend to get proved wrong by players I not sure about anyway. -
Actually on ABs for this year forward, does anyone think that players like Caleb Clarke and Jordie Barrett are going to be more important to team. With the tweak of laws where the blockers are now not able to protect catchers of the kicks , I think the likes of JB will be more important for contesting ball in air and Clarke already does it well. Also will 9s have to be able to box kick etc more accurately? Really started to see it at EOYT, but think it will now become one of things players will get selected on.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster , mate I was just saying the idea that anyone doesn't select on merit is wrong. Not sure what they use , or saying they should or shouldn't use Super form.
I don't believe players are knowingly selected for sentimental reasons. I looked at people who rubbished why TJP and Cane were selected this season and said it was sentimental etc. I personally would of picked them both as I thought they were within the best for their positions when they picked. .I perhaps am not right, but I say that from what I think. I didn't agree with all AB selections, but tend to get proved wrong by players I not sure about anyway.I know what you are saying mate, and there is some truth in it. But two pieces of evidence suggest Razor is also a homer who doesn't pick players deserving based on SR form, those are Hoskins Sotutu (voted SR player of the year) and Fihaki, who could barely make the Crusaders squad. Not to mention his incessant fapping over the idea of being able to select Moounga now
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@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2025:
I fear Robertson is John Hart 2.0. Except Hart inherited a great side and therefore enjoyed two illustrious years despite himself.
I hope NZR don't indulge Razor to the extent Eddie Tonks did Hart or we will see Mounga steering a sinking ship.
Hart did drop an excellent Glen Osborne for Christian Cullen though.
Razor would have waited for an injury before taking a punt like that
