Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia
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@Tim said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@MiketheSnow Maybe the players and the club systems are the problem, and he did a brilliant job with limited resources in 2021? They've only gotten much worse since.
Man for man Pivac had far better personnel to choose from
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Have watched it now - I'm too old to get up and watch at fuckall o'clock and mutter at the TV.
We started well, because we had all the possession and Wales missed a couple of tackles or dropped the ball.
Wales came back once they hung onto it - and that's the bit that should give Uncle Joe something to chew on this week before Scotland.
- We lost the scrum battle - Bell was getting in a bad position and then his second row was giving him zero grunt to fight a tighter Welsh unit behind Griffin. TBH Bell looked pretty exhausted from the get-go after a big game against England.
- Line Defence was bad in the early stages, which was probably down to personnel changes and match fitness.
- We lost the aerial battle again, which will have Scotland licking their lips.
- Discipline threatened to go back to the Bad Old Days, but then for both sides it was hard as Doleman kept moving the goal posts.
- Kerevi had a perfect chance to cut a bloke in half but goes for the chest tackle. FFS. Go back to Japan.
- White's passing was crap - straight at the ball carrier instead of in front of them
I thought Wales 14 was excellent value. Took the high ball well and defended solidly. Morgan as always is the guy you want to follow. Felt fucking sorry for Lake doing the post-match as he'd tried his heart out.
Our defence in the second half was a lot better as guys worked into their combinations.
Schmidt said his strategy was to get JAS on in the second half for Kerevi, but he fucked that up, eh?
Why was Lolesio left out there for 78 minutes? Surely with a lead like that you give Donaldson a run and let him get some minutes. Might need the former to get some rest and the latter to get some minutes leading into Scotland.
Overall, I'm in about the same headspace as last week - yes the England win was thrilling, and mostly workmanlike, but I thought England were better opposition overall, and it showed.
We inch forward.
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@Tim said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
After Gatland's 11th consecutive loss is it time for a reevaluation of Wayne Pivac's tenure? He won the Six Nations in 2021, and though they lost 5 games in the 2022 tournament, they did beat Scotland.
…..and that in itself is basically the Everest of Rugby achievements
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I think at this point we've done a good job on the EOYT - 2 wins was probably the benchmark.
I'm wary of the Scots. While they've been chopping and changing, and won't have learned much from Portugal, their top squad will be rested and ready to go next week.
Ireland I'd written off before we started the tour. Now I think we're 35%.
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@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Billy-Tell said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
Wales just don’t have the forwards. Will be competing with Italy to avoid the wooden spoon.
Schmidt subbed Bell because we had scrum dominance
Ok…I like your attempt to put a positive spin on things.
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@Billy-Tell said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Billy-Tell said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
Wales just don’t have the forwards. Will be competing with Italy to avoid the wooden spoon.
Schmidt subbed Bell because we had scrum dominance
Ok…I like your attempt to put a positive spin on things.
That was one of the pleasing aspects
But it all went to shit when we brought on the ‘Bums Squad’
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can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
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@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
Was it one of those mouthguard false positive things?
Botham certainly took a good whiplashing to the head but he was straight on the tackled player - illegally - and the penalty should have stood.
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@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
Was it one of those mouthguard false positive things?
Botham certainly took a good whiplashing to the head but he was straight on the tackled player - illegally - and the penalty should have stood.
Not sure that's the point mate.
and it does make you think back to the (two?) times George North got left on the field when he was clearly out of it. -
@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
Was it one of those mouthguard false positive things?
Botham certainly took a good whiplashing to the head but he was straight on the tackled player - illegally - and the penalty should have stood.
No, ref took one look at him when he blew the whistle and immediately changed his decision as he looked out of it. A 5 second conversation with the onfield medic is not good enough, had to be an HIA. If everyone was so convinced the ref was wrong then he should have re-awarded the pen. Sick of onfield medics trying to find ways around the HIA process
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@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
Was it one of those mouthguard false positive things?
Botham certainly took a good whiplashing to the head but he was straight on the tackled player - illegally - and the penalty should have stood.
No, ref took one look at him when he blew the whistle and immediately changed his decision as he looked out of it. A 5 second conversation with the onfield medic is not good enough, had to be an HIA. If everyone was so convinced the ref was wrong then he should have re-awarded the pen. Sick of onfield medics trying to find ways around the HIA process
Fair enough. If that was the case then terrible player welfare.
Every hit to the head that results in a player getting a YC should result in an HIA IMHO
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@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
Was it one of those mouthguard false positive things?
Botham certainly took a good whiplashing to the head but he was straight on the tackled player - illegally - and the penalty should have stood.
No, ref took one look at him when he blew the whistle and immediately changed his decision as he looked out of it. A 5 second conversation with the onfield medic is not good enough, had to be an HIA. If everyone was so convinced the ref was wrong then he should have re-awarded the pen. Sick of onfield medics trying to find ways around the HIA process
Fair enough. If that was the case then terrible player welfare.
Every hit to the head that results in a player getting a YC should result in an HIA IMHO
Agreed. "head on head contact. High level of danger" = yellow/red. If it warrants a card it warrants an HIA.
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@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
There are also plenty of times where players are pinned in a ruck and they still get penalised and the ref normally says 'You shouldn't have been there in the first place' so it's inconsistent whichever way you look at it.
But yes, that was farcical. Is the referee not allowed to send players from the field for an HIA?
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@Catogrande said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
Was it one of those mouthguard false positive things?
Botham certainly took a good whiplashing to the head but he was straight on the tackled player - illegally - and the penalty should have stood.
No, ref took one look at him when he blew the whistle and immediately changed his decision as he looked out of it. A 5 second conversation with the onfield medic is not good enough, had to be an HIA. If everyone was so convinced the ref was wrong then he should have re-awarded the pen. Sick of onfield medics trying to find ways around the HIA process
Fair enough. If that was the case then terrible player welfare.
Every hit to the head that results in a player getting a YC should result in an HIA IMHO
Agreed. "head on head contact. High level of danger" = yellow/red. If it warrants a card it warrants an HIA.
Every hit to the head could result in a concussion ≠ Every hit to the head does result in a concussion
Players can get hit in the head without getting concussed - but that's just luck. It doesn't mean the player who hit him shouldn't be punished.
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@Mr-Fish said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Catogrande said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
Was it one of those mouthguard false positive things?
Botham certainly took a good whiplashing to the head but he was straight on the tackled player - illegally - and the penalty should have stood.
No, ref took one look at him when he blew the whistle and immediately changed his decision as he looked out of it. A 5 second conversation with the onfield medic is not good enough, had to be an HIA. If everyone was so convinced the ref was wrong then he should have re-awarded the pen. Sick of onfield medics trying to find ways around the HIA process
Fair enough. If that was the case then terrible player welfare.
Every hit to the head that results in a player getting a YC should result in an HIA IMHO
Agreed. "head on head contact. High level of danger" = yellow/red. If it warrants a card it warrants an HIA.
Every hit to the head could result in a concussion ≠ Every hit to the head does result in a concussion
Players can get hit in the head without getting concussed - but that's just luck. It doesn't mean the player who hit him shouldn't be punished.
I think we may have some crossed lines here. I’m not really commenting on the penalising aspect of things, just that if such an occurrence warrants a card then it really ought to warrant an HIA.
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@Tim said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
He won the Six Nations in 2021, and though they lost 5 games in the 2022 tournament, they did beat Scotland.
A cruel and uncalled for comment.......
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@Machpants said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
Gatland, to his credit, has said he will stand down if WRU think it is the right thing - implying no severence payment. Maybe I'm being too generous in my interpretations.
Much has been made of Gatland’s salary, implying he only did it for the money and that doesn’t sit right with me in my view of Gatland. I’m no great fan of him as a coach but he has come across as a straight up guy. He offered his resignation after the Georgia loss, which I think would have been without a payoff (happy to be corrected) and this sounds the same to me. However, we’ll see.
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You've talked up Llewelyn but he was poor in this game. He conceded two penalties by refusing to pass and getting turned over at the breakdown.
A handful of Welsh players stood up but there definitely isn't the quality there. Elias' throwing was shit in Aust too so it was stupid to sub Lake so early,
The only real positive was the scrum.
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@Bovidae said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
You've talked up Llewelyn but he was poor in this game. He conceded two penalties by refusing to pass and getting turned over at the breakdown.
A handful of Welsh players stood up but there definitely isn't the quality there. Elias' throwing was shit in Aust too so it was stupid to sub Lake so early,
The only real positive was the scrum.
Agreed
Australia played him like a fiddle
They know Anscombe was only there to pass so could drift in defence
Thomas put Llewelyn in good space but as you said he either outran his coverage or didn’t pass before being isolated
He’s raw, he’s young, he’ll get better
That’s why I’m advocating Thomas, James, Llewelyn
All three can pass and take it to the line and will keep defences guessing
There’s less than 10 caps between them but they’re the present and the future
