Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia
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Right I'm up and I'm sober.
I've been in Gatland's position where things aren't working and the easiest option is to just walk away and say fuck it.
Unless he's got a secret betting problem like his colleague Rob Howley then he doesn't need the money.
And the run of losses is certainly tarnishing his legacy.
Bu the best option is to finish the job you were employed to do, to the best of your ability.
So Gatland continues for next week's match against South Africa. He and the WRU can make a decision after that.
There is zero value firing him this week. To anyone.
I still believe that on-field decisions and execution are the players' responsibilities not the coaches.
And Gatland has taken so many coach killer shots this Autumn because of the players.
Tom Wright's first try
Australia like Ireland before them looked pretty throwing the ball around phase after phase but ultimately they were going nowhere except the touchline until Murray waved Wright through untouched.
Just really, really poor defending.Frost's try
Poor basic skills and poor tackling gave the Aussies the ball and gap and Frost galloped away superbly, untouched.
Very much against the run of play as we were building phases.Fessler's first try
A very good Australian maul, no arguments there.19-0 after 23 mins
Not looking good at allWales started playing to the script taking the ball up quickly through the forwards and lo and behold we score.
The officials start calling the Aussie offsides and we're starting to get penalties in kickable positions.
19-13 half time with Wales very much in the ascendancy.
A sluggish start with poor player execution (same old, same old) but we tightened up and at half time it's anyone's match.
Whoever decided to kick the ball dead to finish the half needs a bollocking.
Australia were under the pump, giving away penalties, and our line out had been going great.
If we'd kicked to touch we would have been on their 10m line at least with a chance to do something from the line out.
A missed opportunity.
Second Half
Anyone saying Kerevi's hit didn't warrant a YC is dreaming. Should it have been upgraded to RC. That's a lottery in today's game.
Fessler's second try
Another very good Australian maul, no arguments there.But based on poor Welsh kicking and decision making giving 14-man Australia unworked for field position.
Fessler's third try
A repeat of the secondTom Wright's second try
This is all Gatland
Costelow gets brought on at 58 mins to steer the ship at 10 and gifts Wright an intercept try that Blind Freddy could see was coming
Shit skills, shit execution from a player who shouldn't be anywhere near the Welsh squad.Wales must be the only team in World Rugby who can start a half in the ascendancy and with the inability to take advantage of being 15 v 14 leak 21 points in that 20 minute RC period
Gatland fucked up the bench for the Fiji match and he fucked up the bench for this match
We had to have a reserve scrum half on the bench but we didn't need a reserve outside half, especially Costelow.
When Anscombe came off Thomas should have gone to 10.
Bench should have been Hardy, James, Dyer/Hathaway.
At 67 minutes we get a try back playing sensible rugby driving the ball up into the Aussie forwards.
Then we decide to kick the ball away at every opportunity, especially from scrum half, Elias chooses yesterday to be one of his 'can't hit a barn door with a banjo' days, and we gift Australia possession and territory for them to run in two soft tries in the last 10 minutes and secure a record breaking win.
There was very little wrong with our forward effort prior to subbing our whole front row.
That's all on Gatland. Lake should have stayed on.
Botham had his best game in red and on a different day would have been awarded a try from a brilliant one handed pick up.
Rogers on the wing was immense. He won way more 50/50 balls than he should have but was paying injured for most of the match. But with no wing on the bench he played on for too long. And he was still better than Murray on one leg.
That's all on Gatland.
The TMO was a fucking pest. He stopped the match twice for incidents that weren't but then totally ignored Suaalii's no arm tackle shoulder to the head.
Suaalii could and should be cited for this.
So we have the World Champions and No 1 team in the world up next.
If Gatland selects Tshiunza, R Williams, Anscombe, Costelow, Murray in the match day 23 then YES it's a Gatland problem.
Pack should start the same, with Plumtree on the bench instead of Tshiunza
Backline should be
Bevan, Thomas, Dyer, James, Llewelyn, Rogers, Winnett
Hardy, Hathaway on the bench
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@Tim said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
After Gatland's 11th consecutive loss is it time for a reevaluation of Wayne Pivac's tenure? He won the Six Nations in 2021, and though they lost 5 games in the 2022 tournament, they did beat Scotland.
He started the rot
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@MiketheSnow Maybe the players and the club systems are the problem, and he did a brilliant job with limited resources in 2021? They've only gotten much worse since.
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@Tim said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@MiketheSnow Maybe the players and the club systems are the problem, and he did a brilliant job with limited resources in 2021? They've only gotten much worse since.
Man for man Pivac had far better personnel to choose from
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Have watched it now - I'm too old to get up and watch at fuckall o'clock and mutter at the TV.
We started well, because we had all the possession and Wales missed a couple of tackles or dropped the ball.
Wales came back once they hung onto it - and that's the bit that should give Uncle Joe something to chew on this week before Scotland.
- We lost the scrum battle - Bell was getting in a bad position and then his second row was giving him zero grunt to fight a tighter Welsh unit behind Griffin. TBH Bell looked pretty exhausted from the get-go after a big game against England.
- Line Defence was bad in the early stages, which was probably down to personnel changes and match fitness.
- We lost the aerial battle again, which will have Scotland licking their lips.
- Discipline threatened to go back to the Bad Old Days, but then for both sides it was hard as Doleman kept moving the goal posts.
- Kerevi had a perfect chance to cut a bloke in half but goes for the chest tackle. FFS. Go back to Japan.
- White's passing was crap - straight at the ball carrier instead of in front of them
I thought Wales 14 was excellent value. Took the high ball well and defended solidly. Morgan as always is the guy you want to follow. Felt fucking sorry for Lake doing the post-match as he'd tried his heart out.
Our defence in the second half was a lot better as guys worked into their combinations.
Schmidt said his strategy was to get JAS on in the second half for Kerevi, but he fucked that up, eh?
Why was Lolesio left out there for 78 minutes? Surely with a lead like that you give Donaldson a run and let him get some minutes. Might need the former to get some rest and the latter to get some minutes leading into Scotland.
Overall, I'm in about the same headspace as last week - yes the England win was thrilling, and mostly workmanlike, but I thought England were better opposition overall, and it showed.
We inch forward.
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@Tim said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
After Gatland's 11th consecutive loss is it time for a reevaluation of Wayne Pivac's tenure? He won the Six Nations in 2021, and though they lost 5 games in the 2022 tournament, they did beat Scotland.
…..and that in itself is basically the Everest of Rugby achievements
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I think at this point we've done a good job on the EOYT - 2 wins was probably the benchmark.
I'm wary of the Scots. While they've been chopping and changing, and won't have learned much from Portugal, their top squad will be rested and ready to go next week.
Ireland I'd written off before we started the tour. Now I think we're 35%.
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@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Billy-Tell said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
Wales just don’t have the forwards. Will be competing with Italy to avoid the wooden spoon.
Schmidt subbed Bell because we had scrum dominance
Ok…I like your attempt to put a positive spin on things.
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@Billy-Tell said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Billy-Tell said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
Wales just don’t have the forwards. Will be competing with Italy to avoid the wooden spoon.
Schmidt subbed Bell because we had scrum dominance
Ok…I like your attempt to put a positive spin on things.
That was one of the pleasing aspects
But it all went to shit when we brought on the ‘Bums Squad’
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can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
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@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
Was it one of those mouthguard false positive things?
Botham certainly took a good whiplashing to the head but he was straight on the tackled player - illegally - and the penalty should have stood.
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@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
Was it one of those mouthguard false positive things?
Botham certainly took a good whiplashing to the head but he was straight on the tackled player - illegally - and the penalty should have stood.
Not sure that's the point mate.
and it does make you think back to the (two?) times George North got left on the field when he was clearly out of it. -
@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
Was it one of those mouthguard false positive things?
Botham certainly took a good whiplashing to the head but he was straight on the tackled player - illegally - and the penalty should have stood.
No, ref took one look at him when he blew the whistle and immediately changed his decision as he looked out of it. A 5 second conversation with the onfield medic is not good enough, had to be an HIA. If everyone was so convinced the ref was wrong then he should have re-awarded the pen. Sick of onfield medics trying to find ways around the HIA process
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@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
Was it one of those mouthguard false positive things?
Botham certainly took a good whiplashing to the head but he was straight on the tackled player - illegally - and the penalty should have stood.
No, ref took one look at him when he blew the whistle and immediately changed his decision as he looked out of it. A 5 second conversation with the onfield medic is not good enough, had to be an HIA. If everyone was so convinced the ref was wrong then he should have re-awarded the pen. Sick of onfield medics trying to find ways around the HIA process
Fair enough. If that was the case then terrible player welfare.
Every hit to the head that results in a player getting a YC should result in an HIA IMHO
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@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
Was it one of those mouthguard false positive things?
Botham certainly took a good whiplashing to the head but he was straight on the tackled player - illegally - and the penalty should have stood.
No, ref took one look at him when he blew the whistle and immediately changed his decision as he looked out of it. A 5 second conversation with the onfield medic is not good enough, had to be an HIA. If everyone was so convinced the ref was wrong then he should have re-awarded the pen. Sick of onfield medics trying to find ways around the HIA process
Fair enough. If that was the case then terrible player welfare.
Every hit to the head that results in a player getting a YC should result in an HIA IMHO
Agreed. "head on head contact. High level of danger" = yellow/red. If it warrants a card it warrants an HIA.
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@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
There are also plenty of times where players are pinned in a ruck and they still get penalised and the ref normally says 'You shouldn't have been there in the first place' so it's inconsistent whichever way you look at it.
But yes, that was farcical. Is the referee not allowed to send players from the field for an HIA?
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@Catogrande said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
Was it one of those mouthguard false positive things?
Botham certainly took a good whiplashing to the head but he was straight on the tackled player - illegally - and the penalty should have stood.
No, ref took one look at him when he blew the whistle and immediately changed his decision as he looked out of it. A 5 second conversation with the onfield medic is not good enough, had to be an HIA. If everyone was so convinced the ref was wrong then he should have re-awarded the pen. Sick of onfield medics trying to find ways around the HIA process
Fair enough. If that was the case then terrible player welfare.
Every hit to the head that results in a player getting a YC should result in an HIA IMHO
Agreed. "head on head contact. High level of danger" = yellow/red. If it warrants a card it warrants an HIA.
Every hit to the head could result in a concussion ≠ Every hit to the head does result in a concussion
Players can get hit in the head without getting concussed - but that's just luck. It doesn't mean the player who hit him shouldn't be punished.
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@Mr-Fish said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Catogrande said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@MiketheSnow said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
@Dodge said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
can we talk about how the Welsh 6 looked knocked out and the ref initially gave a pen for not rolling away only to change to scrum when he realised how dazed he was and then the medics just said 'nah mate, he's fine' and he was allowed to stay on the field without an HIA?! Medics in this situation should be fired on the spot, if the ref says a player is dazed then the bare minimum that should happen is an HIA. The player should have literally no say in this.
Was it one of those mouthguard false positive things?
Botham certainly took a good whiplashing to the head but he was straight on the tackled player - illegally - and the penalty should have stood.
No, ref took one look at him when he blew the whistle and immediately changed his decision as he looked out of it. A 5 second conversation with the onfield medic is not good enough, had to be an HIA. If everyone was so convinced the ref was wrong then he should have re-awarded the pen. Sick of onfield medics trying to find ways around the HIA process
Fair enough. If that was the case then terrible player welfare.
Every hit to the head that results in a player getting a YC should result in an HIA IMHO
Agreed. "head on head contact. High level of danger" = yellow/red. If it warrants a card it warrants an HIA.
Every hit to the head could result in a concussion ≠ Every hit to the head does result in a concussion
Players can get hit in the head without getting concussed - but that's just luck. It doesn't mean the player who hit him shouldn't be punished.
I think we may have some crossed lines here. I’m not really commenting on the penalising aspect of things, just that if such an occurrence warrants a card then it really ought to warrant an HIA.
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@Tim said in Autumn Test 2024 : Wales v Australia:
He won the Six Nations in 2021, and though they lost 5 games in the 2022 tournament, they did beat Scotland.
A cruel and uncalled for comment.......
