All Blacks v France
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@BerniesCorner Iike many I thought the loss of Whitelock & Retallick would be very difficult to replace
I have always rated Scott Barrett as someone who could step up discipline aside but the way Tupou Vai has stepped up has been staggering and it’s fair to say I haven’t always been a fan of Patty T but I will gladly eat humble pie on that take
Throw in Sam Darry who has also come on big time ,Josh Lord and Fabian Holland in the wings things a looking very rosy
How good is it gonna be watching these guys battle it out at Super level for test spots moving forward .?
Love the look of the propping stocks ,genuine competition for places , 3 quality hookers when Taukeiaho gets back on the field and the loose forward mix options are looking strong
Who would have thought that at the top of the year? , I think sometimes we under estimate the ability and quality of players developed through NPC and Super Rugby .
PS imagine some of the players in the NZ XV who walk into other international teams ?…maybe not your top 3 or 4 but definitely into other teams -
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v France:
@MN5
Our forward pack is starting to look rather fearsome.
How the heck did we make it to here.It was always going that way once we got a better props in De Groot and Lomax. The fact that we have real depth now at prop is a great foundation to build a pack on. With Sititi coming out of nowhere and Holland on the horizon, the AB pack can become outstanding over the next 12-18 months
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v France:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v France:
@MN5
Our forward pack is starting to look rather fearsome.
How the heck did we make it to here.It was always going that way once we got a better props in De Groot and Lomax. The fact that we have real depth now at prop is a great foundation to build a pack on. With Sititi coming out of nowhere and Holland on the horizon, the AB pack can become outstanding over the next 12-18 months
Add in Lakai for Cane and if he can make strides as fast as Wallace, we could be young and dynamic very quickly
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v France:
@BerniesCorner
How good is it gonna be watching these guys battle it out at Super level for test spots moving forward .?It'll be awesome, as long as they have to... Something I've been thinking about is the sabbatical and guys coming in from Japan or wherever having not played Super. I think it's really unfair on the young guys coming through - they can have a storming super season and then not be picked because a guy who they don't even get a chance to measure themselves against is gifted a spot based on year ago form. All players go downhill at some point, and some very rapidly (Rodney So'oialo, NMS).
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@reprobate Sititi is an example of someone I doubt many would have picked pre super rugby so the opportunity for someone to come out of nowhere is still a very real possibility but I would also hope that some that have fallen down the pecking order ..Eg Quinn Tupaea or Hoskins Sotutu for example can still force their way back in although in the case of Hoskins it would take something extra special to convince Ryan
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v France:
@BerniesCorner
How good is it gonna be watching these guys battle it out at Super level for test spots moving forward .?It'll be awesome, as long as they have to... Something I've been thinking about is the sabbatical and guys coming in from Japan or wherever having not played Super. I think it's really unfair on the young guys coming through - they can have a storming super season and then not be picked because a guy who they don't even get a chance to measure themselves against is gifted a spot based on year ago form. All players go downhill at some point, and some very rapidly (Rodney So'oialo, NMS).
Why do you think some of us were so incensed by Sotutu's omission? Whether he would have made an impact or not, we can't know. Those who point to his earlier time in black as an indication that he'll never be up to it only have to look at how Patty T is playing right now. What can't be argued is that Hoskins deserved a call up. And I can say this and I'm not even a Blues fan!
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Some thoughts on the French after their game against Japan:
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I know it’s only Japan so it’s probably hard to get excited by that game as a French player but I thought the whole team still looked incredibly discouraged. Heads down, lack of communication, nobody smiling after the game. It was the same during the Six Nations, so it seems they’re still in a funk after the loss in the quarter-final. They’ll be targeting this game against the All Blacks as a way to get out of it.
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Antoine Dupont was remarkably loose in this game: passes hitting the ground, flip passes around the back to unexpecting players, going quickly after a penalty when it wasn’t on. After a penalty was reversed in favour of France, he took the ball and kicked quickly to catch the Japanese off guard, only for him to completely miss touch, leading to a Japanese counter-attack. Very different to the player of a couple of years ago, who could go 5 games in a row without making a single mistake. I don’t think the constant hype is really helping him.
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The breakdown is going to be crucial. The French are relentless in attacking the ball, and they have loads of players who can successfully poach. The ABs are going to have to prioritize securing their own ball first, before playing expansively, as the French backline with Dupont, Bielle-Biarrey, Penaud (who didn’t play this week but will be next) and Ramos are deadly on the counter-attack.
So the French are still in a post-World Cup rut but will be looking to get out of it against the ABs. Should be another great game in what has already been a terrific series of November internationals.
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v France:
@reprobate Sititi is an example of someone I doubt many would have picked pre super rugby so the opportunity for someone to come out of nowhere is still a very real possibility but I would also hope that some that have fallen down the pecking order ..Eg Quinn Tupaea or Hoskins Sotutu for example can still force their way back in although in the case of Hoskins it would take something extra special to convince Ryan
Can only hope that it leads to changes in selection. We're seeing clear evidence that super rugby form really matters.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v France:
@reprobate Sititi is an example of someone I doubt many would have picked pre super rugby so the opportunity for someone to come out of nowhere is still a very real possibility but I would also hope that some that have fallen down the pecking order ..Eg Quinn Tupaea or Hoskins Sotutu for example can still force their way back in although in the case of Hoskins it would take something extra special to convince Ryan
Can only hope that it leads to changes in selection. We're seeing clear evidence that super rugby form really matters.
Meanwhile, Ardie has still yet to reclaim his RWC23 era form after the rigours of a season in the tough Japanese league
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@canefan said in All Blacks v France:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v France:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v France:
@MN5
Our forward pack is starting to look rather fearsome.
How the heck did we make it to here.It was always going that way once we got a better props in De Groot and Lomax. The fact that we have real depth now at prop is a great foundation to build a pack on. With Sititi coming out of nowhere and Holland on the horizon, the AB pack can become outstanding over the next 12-18 months
Add in Lakai for Cane and if he can make strides as fast as Wallace, we could be young and dynamic very quickly
Agreed, I hope that with the impact we are getting from Sititi, Ratima, Tosi etc means that Razor will trust you/inexperience a bit more next year. There is a lot of talent coming through and it appears that super rugby isn’t as bad as people make out, when prepping players for test rugby
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v France:
@reprobate Sititi is an example of someone I doubt many would have picked pre super rugby so the opportunity for someone to come out of nowhere is still a very real possibility but I would also hope that some that have fallen down the pecking order ..Eg Quinn Tupaea or Hoskins Sotutu for example can still force their way back in although in the case of Hoskins it would take something extra special to convince Ryan
Can only hope that it leads to changes in selection. We're seeing clear evidence that super rugby form really matters.
Yup, agreed. I wonder what extra special things Hoskins has to do to get selected though? Maybe be super rugby MVP perhaps…? Oh..
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v France:
@MN5
Our forward pack is starting to look rather fearsome.
How the heck did we make it to here.Started a few years ago - a combination of spotting talent (Vaa'i, Lomax, Sititi, etc) and easing them in, sticking with players going thru a bad period (Codie Taylor, Pat T), some continuity in coaching and injury (Sititi and Aumua).
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This one is for Sam Cane
I hope he runs out first -
He had a deep cut Vs Ireland. He might not be fit to play.
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Needs a bit of super glue and a scrum cap
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Got a feeling France will be much tougher than Ireland,
Hope we are well grounded, sleeves rolled up and not on too much of a high feeling good about ourselves after that win
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v France:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v France:
@MN5
Our forward pack is starting to look rather fearsome.
How the heck did we make it to here.Started a few years ago - a combination of spotting talent (Vaa'i, Lomax, Sititi, etc) and easing them in, sticking with players going thru a bad period (Codie Taylor, Pat T), some continuity in coaching and injury (Sititi and Aumua).
That's pretty rose-tinted.
Lomax had been better than Laulala for quite a while before Laulala got injured and Lomax got a chance. That's not easing someone in, it's holding them back.
Sititi was thrown in the deep end, again because of injury, he wasn't eased in - and he's a star.
Sticking with Taylor through a bad period could have been done without compromising AB performance and without shitting on the much better performing at the time ST.
Aumua has been used badly, as per my other post. Injury has again been our best selector again.Vaai has been good, and has stepped up from clearly 4th best lock with the departure of the two greats. He has had a well structured path. That's one.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v France:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v France:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v France:
@MN5
Our forward pack is starting to look rather fearsome.
How the heck did we make it to here.It was always going that way once we got a better props in De Groot and Lomax. The fact that we have real depth now at prop is a great foundation to build a pack on. With Sititi coming out of nowhere and Holland on the horizon, the AB pack can become outstanding over the next 12-18 months
Add in Lakai for Cane and if he can make strides as fast as Wallace, we could be young and dynamic very quickly
Yeah I'd have Lakai on the bench against France. He can cover 6,7,8 if needed as well. He could be the perfect bench player for us over the next few seasons until Ardie's form drops right off and he takes his place.
A bench of forwards that include Aumua, Tu'ungafasi, Tosi, Tuipolotu and Lakai going forward is pretty damn impactful.
