All Blacks v France
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The ABs didn’t lose because of Ioane… midfield part of the reason we could/should have been out of sight by halftime.
Big issues were Ratima, B Barrett (second half), ALB and Reece. The attack fell apart once Roigard and Jordie went off… and we probably should still have won the game.
You don’t win points for playing better rugby, but the long-term health of this team is good, assuming we iron out the kinks. We have had the better of everyone this year for the majority of our tests, which is better than fluking results with poor overall performances. If you can’t see the progress, I can’t help you.
Is it slower than we might like? Of course, but this is a new coaching team at a start if a new World Cup cycle, who barring an aberration to Argentina had performed pretty bloody well.
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France:
Increasingly noticeable for me how 10 and 15 aren't prepared in Super rugby in certain areas for the international level, such as kicking.
How was Beaudens super form? Even if he were learning those skills at international level he has enough caps to have nailed them.
McKenzie kicks often and long for the Chiefs, with Stevenson doing the same.Why are you mentioning Stevenson? Merhtens looks like Collins compared to Stevenson. In an era of "both sides of the ball" he's absent half the time.
Because it was a reply to a post about super rugby 10s and 15s kicking.
Why are you talking about both sides of the ball when kicking it means having it?Because that's the stated criteria for selection. So anyone with a booming boot who is a turnstile isn't likely to get a call up.
So going off those stats, does that mean Love is excluded?
If we believe them. I've seen enough of Stevenson to form an opinion on his defensive attributes. I'll watch Love more closely next year and if he's much the same no one should be in any doubt I'll call a spade a spade.
I think you're overegging it. Dagg was no better as a defender and he had a 66 test career due to his aerial dominance, booming boot, playmaker ability and running game. Stevenson has similar strengths.
Dagg played when the ABs at win percentage in the high 80s and early 90s. He was also an important part of an RWC winning campaign. Obviously his turnstile defense didn't prevent the ABs from winning.
Dagg seemed more committed than Stevenson? I'd worry about the latter's confidence levels-he can fall apart. He's a big lump and offensive weapon but he needs to be consistent, mentally tough and a better tackler from what I can see.
A shame-he is undeniably talented. -
@MN5 said in All Blacks v France:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France:
Well you could always put Jordie back at 15 and try out Lam at 12
..but Love deserves next crack at 15 I reckon.
May as well go the whole hog and recall George Bridge for maximum lack of impact
Lam ain't no Bridge.
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Jordan is an OK test fullback, but his defense and decision making get exposed against the top sides. On the wing, neither of those things get exposed and he is one of the greats who scores tries for fun against anyone. His strike rate there is insane and we are just so much stronger with him and Clarke on the wings. I get the feeling Razor has been desperate to move him to fullback as that's where he has played alot at Super level without really considering what strengths are super important for a test fullback.
Jordie regularly got MOTM votes at the back based purely on his defense and work under the high ball. It has been really frustrating watching them continue to select Jordan at 15 as it makes him a worse player and our back three much weaker. We have plenty of players that can play in the 15 jumper to a high level, I am hoping against hope they get Jordan back on the wing next season.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v France:
@booboo said in All Blacks v France:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v France:
Razor fucked around and found out
2-0 on a NH tour and he changes the team
That’s Wales level dumb
Who did he change? Roigard and ?
Edit: oh yeah, Taylor
DMac was MOTM vs Ireland. Aumua was just behind him. Subbing two of your hottest players for two guys coming out of concussion protocol is madness
Can understand Aumua on workload. DMac no.
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@LagerLout
I totally agree, We need a good # 10. RM was just really beginning to show all his class and then he fucks off.
S Barret is no AB captain IMHO. Would have had Ardie all day long. We need to get rid of some of the dead wood. Need a better centre paring. Maybe Reico back to wing for pace and AJ Lamb and Billy Procter.
Most of all we will never get anywhere with out a great decisive 10 and much better decision making.
Too not go for the sideline when we were 4 down was fucking shameful. We need to back ourselves otherwise it is going to be more of the same of this shit. for the foreseeable future. -
@Halfback said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean I'm a Cantabrian and this resonates with even me. As I said earlier, what business does Havilli even have being in the squad? He played a handful of super rugby games this year, and in them he was a liability cough Waratahs game. Then he got injured and walks into the All Blacks. Might be one of the worst All Blacks I've seen.
That jersey could and should be filled by Love or Narawa
Great post. Spot on. Time to clean house or the cupboard will be empty for years to come. what happen to being ruthless with selection as well as playing the game ??
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@SBW1 said in All Blacks v France:
All Blacks player ratings vs France | Autumn Nations Series
The All Blacks built a half-time lead of 17-10 after tries to Peter Lakai and Cam Roigard, before France equalled proceedings early.
Obviously that c##t wasn't watching the same game as me. I see more insight and knowledge of the game on here than any of the papers or rugby sights. Maybe that is why Razor and Co are making so many fuck ups with there selections.
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I'm watching the game again and in the 16th minute, with New Zealand on the attack in the French 22, Amashukeli penalizes Savea for going off his feet in the clean. The only problem is that Savea was only off his feet because Mauvaka trips him up when rolling away.
The protocol has been pretty clear for quite a while now: first you look at the actions of the tackler before you take the breakdown contest into account. Amashukeli consistently ignored the actions of the tacklers throughout the game, which I think better suited the French breakdown tactics than it did the ABs'.
I don't think it necessarily lost New Zealand the game but it's more than a bit confusing when you have such different approaches from a ref on a week-to-week basis.
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@Mauss He's a wild referee. I remember he officiated the RWC warm up game between England and Wales. 3 yellow cards and 1 red card. I remember thinking some of the cards were an absolute joke then too.
His interpretation of the maul was hilarious, as if he was guessing, and didn't call stopped/use at all, even though the French were retreating. Then pings Taylor for, well nothing.
The last 5 minutes I don't think he made any calls, instead relied of the assistants and TMO, almost as if he choked. He isn't good enough simply. McKenzie went down on a kick, French player jumped on him as he's on the floor and he didn't call it in, he had to be told!
The French knew how to use him too, and although I can't find any online data it wouldn't surprise me if his regular position is a referee in the Top 14. We'll see how France goes next year with hopefully, some Southern Hemisphere referees.
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Meh, the ref certainly isn't the reason why we lost that game. We'd only be happy with any ref if we had a lopsided 18-3 penalty count in our favour or something close to that.
Ruben Love for fullback? With Jordan back to the wing? Or do we need an injury for Love to get a go?
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@African-Monkey probably need an injury to BB, Jordan, Perofeta and Fihaki.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
@African-Monkey probably need an injury to BB, Jordan, Perofeta and Fihaki.
And it's probably the thing that annoys me the most. A lot of the changes are reactionary, when it's obvious that certain guys should be bought in. Yes, we've improved slowly as the year has gone on, but if injury didn't occur, we'd most likely be stuck with some of the same carthorses that we had at the start of the year (Sititi, Tosi, and Lakai being perfect examples of the guys we have waiting in the wings if given the opportunity).
Even in the 2nd test this year, Christie had done his dash, but was kept out there for longer than he should have until he hobbled off injured, Ratima came on and changed the game.
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The ref was fine. Let’s not become Irish.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v France:
The ref was fine. Let’s not become Irish.
I feel like all the posts I read are saying he's not the reason we lost? People are still allowed to say he's shit, without becoming sexface.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v France:
The ref was fine. Let’s not become Irish.
I feel like all the posts I read are saying he's not the reason we lost? People are still allowed to say he's shit, without becoming sexface.
I thought Nic Berry was worse than this Georgian fella last week.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v France:
The ref was fine. Let’s not become Irish.
My comment on Amashukeli wasn’t intended as a slight against him. I also think it’s possible to talk about refereeing without it turning into ref bashing.
A ref’s interpretation of the breakdown is always important but I feel like it gains more weight when you have two opposing teams with very different playing philosophies, like New Zealand and France have. Whereas the French forward pack generally plays like a tight, cohesive unit (where they are always within a 20 metre radius of each other), the ABs like to keep width and have forwards and backs dispersed across a backline.
That also means that the tackle area becomes very important for a side like the All Blacks, as they try to limit the number of players committed to securing the ruck. When the tackle area is a mess, and you have, for example, only Will Jordan and Sevu Reece available to clean out in a ten metre radius, then it’s easy to see how that quickly turns into a problem.
That being said, there’s certainly a case to be made that the current game plan isn’t working when facing sides like France and the Springboks. In all three tests, New Zealand lost the game through their inability to win the breakdown, both on attack and defence, with France and South Africa finding it too easy to generate scores through the pick and go when within the NZ 22. In all three tests, Robertson’s solution – of running them off their feet by keeping the ball – hasn’t worked. And you’d have to wonder whether he should radically alter his approach to these teams, for example, by picking a bigger pack and by tightening the game plan.
The current game plan can still work, I think, but then you have to have a number of strike moves off of lineout and scrum which almost guarantee points (similar to how France had that maul try with the early shift up their sleeve). Currently, the ABs are getting too little purchase of those attacks for them to win these test matches.
So again, definitely not intending to bash the ref. Simply trying to get some more insight on what went wrong against France.
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@Billy-Tell Apologies, I didn't mean to sound like an Irish casual!
I think Razor desperately needs the international season to be over so he can go away and ponder his next moves. I dearly hope he has used this season to feel out what he's up against and what he was left to work with.
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