All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham
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Who would you play and why?
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I'd play Finau if he'd actually done something good against a good side.
You know, earned his selection.He was given good grace by Razor to start at England in two tests when he hadn't fuckin earned it at super level.
You 've talked about highlight reel Ardie. Finau is the ultimate example. Smashed a couple of 10s - woah get him in!!! He was shit against England and deservedly dropped.
Now the cupboard is almost bare, he might luck his way back in based off smashing someone other than a 10 against Japan. (for once)
I'd play Sititi at 6, Ardie at 8 and Cane at 7.
I want to see the back of Ardie at 8 and Cane at 7 as soon as possible, but Lakai seems to green to throw in against England and Finau simply hasn't earned a start.
Perhaps he can be off the bench.
He certainly has the physical dimensions to be an awesome 6, but right now he's more Pierre Spies (looking like Tarzan playing like Jane) than anything else.
This is perhaps partly on Razor persisting with Blackadder and Ardie for too long and not giving Sititi starts at 8 or bringing in Lakai earlier.
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Tell me you didn't watch the defence yesterday without telling me you didn't watch the defence yesterday. The highlight reel hits were a small part of it.
And after watching our loose forwards get dominated in contact all season so far I saw enough to think we should at least try. Also he's tall and a good lineout lifter.
I want to see the end of 3 loose 6'2 loose forwards forever. Especially ones that can't win a collision on defence.
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@mariner4life
Agree with the imbalanced back row but he simply hasn't earned a start yet. Putting in goodish work against Japan is not enough considering he's been tried once already. Its fuckin unfair on the harder working players that he swans into the starting 15.Giving him decent minutes off the bench should be his path perhaps with Savea going to 7 and Sititi to 8.
If he starts monstering opposing forwards and ups his workrate a tad then he starts at 6, then Sititi goes to 8 and Savea can fuck off to the bench where he belongs.
Then it's a two horse race between Papalii and Lakai for the 7 shirt once Cane buggers off.
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@Frank said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@mariner4life
Agree with the imbalanced back row but he simply hasn't earned a start yet. Putting in goodish work against Japan is not enough considering he's been tried once already. Its fuckin unfair on the harder working players that he swans into the starting 15.Giving him decent minutes off the bench should be his path perhaps with Savea going to 7 and Sititi to 8.
If he starts monstering opposing forwards and ups his workrate a tad then he starts at 6, then Sititi goes to 8 and Savea can fuck off to the bench where he belongs.
Then it's a two horse race between Papalii and Lakai for the 7 shirt once Cane buggers off.
EB was another who you could switch out in that convo. I don't think anyone apart from Sititi has nailed down their spot based on performance in black this season so far. In that case I would expect Razor to want to kick the tires on other guys who might better help us to win
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Whereas savea can turn in what, 8? Substandard 80 minute performances and he should definitely start?
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@Frank said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
I'd play Sititi at 6, Ardie at 8 and Cane at 7.
Dude. Just how shit does Ardie have to play for us to put up with a loose forward that doesn't hit rucks, doesn't make dominant tackles and is too small to be a serious lineout option? All his game busting positives have gone. His "leg drive" in contact now actively slows our ruck speed down. Being bundled over the sideline. Losing the ball in contact and missing tackles.
The best 8 in the squad is made to play a position he didn't play in SR. For anyone to say that the numbers don't matter in modern rugby have no fucking idea how specific lines are.
Finau, Cane, Sititi.
Lakai and Ardie on the bench.
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Biggest worry to me for the next few weeks is the rushed defence of our opponents and the inability of our tens to cope to being given no space and then the terrible defensive re-alignment when they fuck up. What we saw against Argentina at Wellington could very easily be repeated.
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@Jet Yeah, some genius decided the All Blacks must have a "League-style 10" and made that the great shibboleth of New Zealand Rugby, when a 10, who can catch, pass, kick, tackle and above all make the correct decisions under pressure, is what we really need.
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@Bones said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
I find it pretty weird that people that dislike Finau cite his ability to smash a first five as a bad thing.
How the fuck does that logic work?
How is it better to watch Blackadder get fucking trampled by one of the smallest backs on the field?
Exactly, and by doing that, it makes the 10s think twice about taking the line on. I really do hope he gets a proper opportunity somewhere down the line. He's a genuine talent.
And yeah, us Blackadder critics mave made our point on his ineffective workrate over and over again, to go with his horrific injury record. Can't believe he's still so highly regarded.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Bones said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
I find it pretty weird that people that dislike Finau cite his ability to smash a first five as a bad thing.
How the fuck does that logic work?
How is it better to watch Blackadder get fucking trampled by one of the smallest backs on the field?
Exactly, and by doing that, it makes the 10s think twice about taking the line on. I really do hope he gets a proper opportunity somewhere down the line. He's a genuine talent.
And yeah, us Blackadder critics mave made our point on his ineffective workrate over and over again.
Being wrong about something over and over again isn't something to brag about mate...
Totally agree on Finau though - since when is hammering the opposition 10 a negative? It has always been one of the best ways to disrupt an opposition team's game plan. -
@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Biggest worry to me for the next few weeks is the rushed defence of our opponents and the inability of our tens to cope to being given no space and then the terrible defensive re-alignment when they fuck up. What we saw against Argentina at Wellington could very easily be repeated.
Nah, as long as they pick McKenzie. He's already shown far more against a rush than Mounga or Barrett. One of the few good things this year has been the first positive signs against the rush in years.
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@Frank said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@mariner4life
Agree with the imbalanced back row but he simply hasn't earned a start yet. Putting in goodish work against Japan is not enough considering he's been tried once already. Its fuckin unfair on the harder working players that he swans into the starting 15.Giving him decent minutes off the bench should be his path perhaps with Savea going to 7 and Sititi to 8.
If he starts monstering opposing forwards and ups his workrate a tad then he starts at 6, then Sititi goes to 8 and Savea can fuck off to the bench where he belongs.
He literally just monstered opposition forwards and upped his workrate, so by your own criteria he's in?
Hard working is not sufficient to make the AB team ahead of better players.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Bones said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
I find it pretty weird that people that dislike Finau cite his ability to smash a first five as a bad thing.
How the fuck does that logic work?
How is it better to watch Blackadder get fucking trampled by one of the smallest backs on the field?
Exactly, and by doing that, it makes the 10s think twice about taking the line on. I really do hope he gets a proper opportunity somewhere down the line. He's a genuine talent.
And yeah, us Blackadder critics mave made our point on his ineffective workrate over and over again.
Being wrong about something over and over again isn't something to brag about mate...
Totally agree on Finau though - since when is hammering the opposition 10 a negative? It has always been one of the best ways to disrupt an opposition team's game plan.We'll agree to disagree on Blackadder.
I do think a loose trio of Finau, Sititi and Lakai has the potential to be something special as well. We probably won't see it for a while and am not holding my breath, but there's a world class trio there if bought along correctly.
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@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Jet Yeah, some genius decided the All Blacks must have a "League-style 10" and made that the great shibboleth of New Zealand Rugby, when a 10, who can catch, pass, kick, tackle and above all make the correct decisions under pressure, is what we really need.
As I've said before, it's the hangover from the Dan Carter era. Too much focus on the spectacular part of his game and not enough on the fact that DC did all the fundamentals of 10 play exceptionally well
