World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game
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After watching last night’s Euro rugby and this morning’s NPC and AB Test can someone please explain the following
If a defender places his hands on the ground beyond the tackled player and/or the ball it’s a penalty against the defender for not supporting his own body weight
But when a supporting player for the attacking team ends up lying on the floor well beyond the ball either creating a ‘wall’ and / or taking a defender out of play it’s play on
That’s the first thing I’d officiate properly before introducing even more laws
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@MiketheSnow bingo. How about making sure current officiating is up to scratch and consistent before bringing in more confusion.
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@MiketheSnow said in World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game:
After watching last night’s Euro rugby and this morning’s NPC and AB Test can someone please explain the following
If a defender places his hands on the ground beyond the tackled player and/or the ball it’s a penalty against the defender for not supporting his own body weight
But when a supporting player for the attacking team ends up lying on the floor well beyond the ball either creating a ‘wall’ and / or taking a defender out of play it’s play on
That’s the first thing I’d officiate properly before introducing even more laws
You are talking about applying the laws fairly and equally between the attacking and defending teams and for that you have gone too far and deserve a card yourself.
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Watched Detroit lions v packers the other day
A player got ejectedFew interesting things about how they deal with ejections in the NFL
Branch the Lions Defensive Back led with his helmet
First contact was helmet on helmet
Using the helmet as a weapon aint so tough in my book
When Chabal broke Ali Williams’ jaw into pieces in a similar play (no helmets there), now that was tough!I thought it was an ejection straight up
It was a late hit, the other player didn’t even have the ball! (he’d fumbled it)
Initially it was just a 15 yard penalty!
Then it got interesting, the TMO came straight over the top of the referee
TMO ordered the ejection, no discussion with the referee, all took less than a minuteAll the “old schools” were shocked; they all agreed it was a dirty hit, but ejection!
Branch then fingered the crowd as he went off (they didn’t show that bit, but you could hear it)
That was another 15 yard penaltySo the game day penalty for the team was 30 yards and the loss of their No. 1 DB for the rest of the game
As for the player; on Monday he got his fines; 10k+ for the hit and 10k+ for the finger
And he would have been notified of how many games suspension he’ll get if there is a repeatThat’s where it gets serious for the player, when you get suspended in the NFL you lose all your money for those games
He’s a high rated player, so you’re talking in 100s of thousands
And if keeps going “old school” he’ll then be suspended indefinitely and put on the NFL commissioners listI’d be surprised to see him do it again, no matter how pissed he is—just cost too much money
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Lots of complaints this Autumn about YC for rugby 'incidents' where there's clumsy, head contact.
Ruining the game, ruining the spectacle.
I'd argue that YCing a player after a dominant scrum has been awarded a penalty try ruins the game far more.
Defending team is down to 14 and the whole match gets blown out in less than 10 mins.
Exactly what happened when Scotland were 12-0 ahead and Portugal after weathering the early storm were called back for a knock on when a certain intercept try was on.
Portugal getting pumped in the scrum and concede Penalty Try and YC.
10 mins later it's 33-0
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@MiketheSnow are we at the point where kicking penalties just doesn't give enough points to the opposition to act as a deterrent? I do agree with you, but you need a way to deal with negative repeat infringements preventing tries. Traditionally that's simply the points you get by kicking penalties.
We are at the point where playing for a card is good tactics, and that's a bit shit. -
@reprobate although some of those scrum ones are not due to cynical play, just a lesser player/pack, in which case it is highly likely you are already gonna lose.
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@taniwharugby said in World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game:
@reprobate although some of those scrum ones are not due to cynical play, just a lesser player/pack, in which case it is highly likely you are already gonna lose.
Like all this stuff it is a bit of a balancing act - you don't want to have teams playing with 14 men and then 13 simply because they aren't good enough at scrummaging - conversely you don't want to under-penalise it and allow the tactic of a team playing a front row that can't scrum but are effectively 3 x extra loose forwards. Fatties are important, and if I want to watch league I'll do that (I don't).
The key may well be just the value of a penalty kick - is 3 points every time enough? I think we're pretty close to saying no it's not - teams will turn down 3 points and scrum again and again playing for cards. Or looking for repeat infringements close to the line and then a card. I don't know the numbers, but I assume a YC on average is worth more than 3 points - and there is (subconscious or deliberate I'm not sure) a reset in the referee's mind when the team being offended against scores points.
Ireland were whistled off the park against us and we kicked our goals very accurately, but they were still within striking distance late in the game despite being well outplayed, and that scenario isn't unusual. If they had been given a YC for the repeat infringements, I don't think they would have been that close - but I'd much rather watch 15 on 15. It's all been said before, but the reason for that is purely because reffing is fucking hard, so the more major decisions there are in a game the more impact the ref has - which isn't what we want. The carding is so inconsistent that you end up with that inconsistency having a major impact on game results - see the RWC final for example. -
Points or card
Not both
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The Law of Unintended Consequences
'We need to speed up the game'
'How about not straight at the line out when the defending team doesn't compete is play on?'
'Great. Implement it'
Most defending teams won't go up at a 5m line out as they wait for the attacking catcher to come back to earth so they can execute a legal counter maul
So there's no onus on the hooker to throw straight which creates a greater chance of securing possession and setting up an impregnable maul
This has increased the likelihood of the attacking team scoring and because they're in a stronger position (formation wise) more likelihood that the defending team will commit a foul resulting in a Penalty Try and/or YC.
The review by ref and TMO has actually slowed the game down and made the lineout less of a contest.
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@MiketheSnow That rule change is fucking dumb, I don't know what they're trying to achieve, but if it is speeding the game up by avoiding a stoppage then just change it to a free-kick for not straight, no lineout or scrum. Quicker, doesn't fuck other things up, and doesn't need an extra determination by refs who already can't cope with the complexity of the game.
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@reprobate said in World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game:
Oh and enforce a time limit on the free-kick.
And scrums, emphasis on enforce
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@Machpants said in World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game:
enforce
I think if they emphasised that on many existing rules, it would clean things up a bit
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@Windows97 said in World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game:
The only way to have 30 second scrums is to start blowing penalites if teams are taking too long...good luck there...
Or stop the clock like they do in league. Make the fatties play every second they waste
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@Windows97 Yeah, better than nothing, but they still get a rest. I'd be all in favour of just hammering any time-wasting with free-kicks. The game would change overnight for the better.
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@reprobate said in World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game:
@Windows97 Yeah, better than nothing, but they still get a rest. I'd be all in favour of just hammering any time-wasting with free-kicks. The game would change overnight for the better.
Time limit to be ready to engage. If either of the packs don't form up in time they concede a free kick
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