If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?
-
Disagree on Schmidt/Ryan. There was a clear difference in game plan between them and Plumtree/Mooar. I would say our current game plan is actually closer to Mooar's plan.
@kpkanz said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
With the current team it looks like we're capable of completely blowing any team off the park.
This is an extremely optimistic take. From what I've seen we lack the physicality and mental fortitude to sustain pressure against teams like South Africa and Argentina when they're on.
I don't see us blowing Ireland or France off the park with our current game plan and the preferred players.
If the evidence you're basing your claim on is the last two games against the Wallabies its an extremely flimsy foundation.
The Wallabies forwards were making easy metres against us in the first half. Our defense was weak.
There was a massive difference in physicality and starch in the defense from the replacement forwards yesterday.
-
@brodean said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Disagree on Schmidt/Ryan. There was a clear difference in game plan between them and Plumtree/Mooar.
@kpkanz said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
With the current team it looks like we're capable of completely blowing any team off the park.
This is an extremely optimistic take. From what I've seen we lack the physicality and mental fortitude to sustain pressure against teams like South Africa and Argentina when they're on.
I don't see us blowing Ireland or France off the park with our current game plan and the preferred players.
If the evidence you're basing your claim on is the last two games against the Wallabies its an extremely flimsy foundation.
I agreed that the game plan changed under Schmidt/Ryan. Just said it didn't provide the high ceiling the current iteration does to be extremely dominant.
And I didn't base this off just the last two games. We have shown this the entire year.
I genuinely would not be surprised if we go unbeaten on the EOYT. Not only that, but beat teams convincingly.
-
-
@brodean said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Half our tries yesterday were down to Clarke and Jordan's individual brilliance.
For me there is nothing special about our attack outside those two. With Clarke out in the 2nd Bok test we failed to score a single try.
I credit that to TJ/BB as the halves pairing more than anything. That's the worst our phase attack has looked all year.
The 2nd Bok test we had a guaranteed try and also a probable try only stopped by professional fouls by SA that resulted in two yellow cards for them.
Our new attack shape and phase play is highly promising. A bit more work could be done once we're close to the goal line (which was severely lacking in SA) but our attack outside of that is looking extremely potent.
-
@brodean said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Lam has barely played in NPC. He's basically been injured 80% of the season and you can consider him unavailable
@Chris-B said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
AJ Lam, has had a chunk of time injured and aside from that has, I believe, been playing centre - for a team that's struggling to make the top 8
If that's their thinking, the double standards are staggering.
-
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@brodean said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Lam has barely played in NPC. He's basically been injured 80% of the season and you can consider him unavailable
@Chris-B said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
AJ Lam, has had a chunk of time injured and aside from that has, I believe, been playing centre - for a team that's struggling to make the top 8
If that's their thinking, the double standards are staggering.
Especially if they pick that young cantab no mark in the backs for the EOYT
-
I'm in two minds
On one hand we look to be developing and the squad seems to be evolving - young players are taking their opportunities which is great to see.
On the other hand our attack looks worryingly basic and question marks remain about the selectors ability to make some tough calls - so far they haven't had to but push is going to come to shove in a month or so.
I don't see our attack working up north - unless we make some tough selection decisions combined with some variation in our pattern.
Take ALB for example - he's looked brilliant at 12 but poor at 13 and 23. Is he going to get a shot at 12 or continued to be shoehorned into the 23 or 13 jerseys?
England Ireland France in the space of 14 days is going to show us exactly where we are at.
The positive side of that very difficult 3 game stretch is there will almost certainly be a variety of players given opportunities due to injuries almost guaranteed to occur.
-
@sparky said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner The interesting call is Jordie Barrett or ALB at 12. Much though I admire Jordie's skills and talent, ALB gave a more composed performance today and made better decisions.
Further complicated by the decision to make Jordie vice captain
-
@KiwiMurph said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@sparky said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner The interesting call is Jordie Barrett or ALB at 12. Much though I admire Jordie's skills and talent, ALB gave a more composed performance today and made better decisions.
Further complicated by the decision to make Jordie vice captain
and Ardie
-
@kpkanz said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Our propping depth is insane
We are not far off from clicking
The Doommongery on here is insane.Just like we weren't far off clicking in the last 3 years.
That was NEVER the vibe under Foster.
That's why it was so miserable. There was no potential with that miserable game plan under that regime. If we executed it to 100% efficiency we still would have lost as we did.
We got the results our game plan deserved and didn't look like we were improving or had ANY semblance of being dominant at any point.
When we won it looked like we had to grind and get lucky and hope the opposition screwed up.
Even when things improved under Schmidt/Ryan it still looked like we needed others to underperform to have a shot and maximize the very few opportunities we'd have during the game.
With the current team it looks like we're capable of completely blowing any team off the park. We've had extremely dominant spells where it's out of the other teams hands and feels as if its up to us whether the score finishes 20-10 or 50-10.
28-5 after 20 mins against Aussie.
40-0 at 40 mins against Argentina.
27-14 up against SA in SA (4 tries to 1 up) before our capitulation.All that just to say Foster has a superior RC record.
-
Against England Ireland and France we are in the game.
The reason pure and simple is the strong tight 5 and halfbacks. Tosi , de Groot, Lomax, tMW, Newell, Taylor, Aumua, Darry, Barrett , Vaai , Ratima, DMac is a hand full for anyone. We do have our own bomb squad now.
Lack of speed at 7 needs to be addressed. Need to commit with involvement of Paps/ Lakai to support Cane.
An option is Cane and Savea providing starch off the bench. -
@Mr-Fish said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Was that a common perception on here...?
Was for me. We'd play one game or half absolutely brilliantly and go to complete shit in the next with pretty much the same players.
The only consistent thing was the inconsistency. Still there.
-
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
The Doommongery on here is insane.
The player stocks are much better with the likes of Vaai & Williams coming of age and finds like Sititi. The potential is there, but so is the flakiness of the team - worse in some ways.
A few close games on the EOYT where we cut out the headless chicken stuff might be the catalyst for change.
-
@Victor-Meldrew I'd agree with that. It's obvious we are improving though. We are adding too many keepers not to.
For Xmas we need a 7 and sort out 12-13 -
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@kpkanz said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Our propping depth is insane
We are not far off from clicking
The Doommongery on here is insane.Just like we weren't far off clicking in the last 3 years.
That was NEVER the vibe under Foster.
That's why it was so miserable. There was no potential with that miserable game plan under that regime. If we executed it to 100% efficiency we still would have lost as we did.
We got the results our game plan deserved and didn't look like we were improving or had ANY semblance of being dominant at any point.
When we won it looked like we had to grind and get lucky and hope the opposition screwed up.
Even when things improved under Schmidt/Ryan it still looked like we needed others to underperform to have a shot and maximize the very few opportunities we'd have during the game.
With the current team it looks like we're capable of completely blowing any team off the park. We've had extremely dominant spells where it's out of the other teams hands and feels as if its up to us whether the score finishes 20-10 or 50-10.
28-5 after 20 mins against Aussie.
40-0 at 40 mins against Argentina.
27-14 up against SA in SA (4 tries to 1 up) before our capitulation.All that just to say Foster has a superior RC record.
Done this before but Fosters RC wins for context..
2020 - No SA
2021 - No away games to SA/Arg due to covid
2022 - the only actual home/away RC, get smashed the first away SA game, we win the next away game to win the championship, that win was the famous Ellis park win where it was very public knowledge Foster would be fired if we lost, players went all out, very much an anomaly considering the extreme situation
2023 - shortened RC, only 3 games, 2 home games vs SA/Aus
I'd imagine Razors current team would have won each of these iterations.
-
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
For Xmas we need a 7 and sort out 12-13
I do wonder if Sititi might give us the options to unlock the 6/7/8 balance conundrum we've had for a while.
12-13 has been an issue for years. Think we need to ask if RI is going to kick on any more at 13 and if Proctor is the answer. Unsure about 12. JB not spectacular but solid - nothing wrong with that - so see how he goes with another 13.
-
@kpkanz said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@kpkanz said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Our propping depth is insane
We are not far off from clicking
The Doommongery on here is insane.Just like we weren't far off clicking in the last 3 years.
That was NEVER the vibe under Foster.
That's why it was so miserable. There was no potential with that miserable game plan under that regime. If we executed it to 100% efficiency we still would have lost as we did.
We got the results our game plan deserved and didn't look like we were improving or had ANY semblance of being dominant at any point.
When we won it looked like we had to grind and get lucky and hope the opposition screwed up.
Even when things improved under Schmidt/Ryan it still looked like we needed others to underperform to have a shot and maximize the very few opportunities we'd have during the game.
With the current team it looks like we're capable of completely blowing any team off the park. We've had extremely dominant spells where it's out of the other teams hands and feels as if its up to us whether the score finishes 20-10 or 50-10.
28-5 after 20 mins against Aussie.
40-0 at 40 mins against Argentina.
27-14 up against SA in SA (4 tries to 1 up) before our capitulation.All that just to say Foster has a superior RC record.
Done this before but Fosters RC wins for context..
2020 - No SA
2021 - No away games to SA/Arg due to covid
2022 - the only actual home/away RC, get smashed the first away SA game, we win the next away game to win the championship, that win was the famous Ellis park win where it was very public knowledge Foster would be fired if we lost, players went all out, very much an anomaly considering the extreme situation
2023 - shortened RC, only 3 games, 2 home games vs SA/Aus
I'd imagine Razors current team would have won each of these iterations.
You can imagine Razor naked in your bedroom too if that floats your boat, but that's not real life either.
50% win record.
-
@kpkanz said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@kpkanz said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Our propping depth is insane
We are not far off from clicking
The Doommongery on here is insane.Just like we weren't far off clicking in the last 3 years.
That was NEVER the vibe under Foster.
That's why it was so miserable. There was no potential with that miserable game plan under that regime. If we executed it to 100% efficiency we still would have lost as we did.
We got the results our game plan deserved and didn't look like we were improving or had ANY semblance of being dominant at any point.
When we won it looked like we had to grind and get lucky and hope the opposition screwed up.
Even when things improved under Schmidt/Ryan it still looked like we needed others to underperform to have a shot and maximize the very few opportunities we'd have during the game.
With the current team it looks like we're capable of completely blowing any team off the park. We've had extremely dominant spells where it's out of the other teams hands and feels as if its up to us whether the score finishes 20-10 or 50-10.
28-5 after 20 mins against Aussie.
40-0 at 40 mins against Argentina.
27-14 up against SA in SA (4 tries to 1 up) before our capitulation.All that just to say Foster has a superior RC record.
Done this before but Fosters RC wins for context..
2020 - No SA
2021 - No away games to SA/Arg due to covid
2022 - the only actual home/away RC, get smashed the first away SA game, we win the next away game to win the championship, that win was the famous Ellis park win where it was very public knowledge Foster would be fired if we lost, players went all out, very much an anomaly considering the extreme situation
2023 - shortened RC, only 3 games, 2 home games vs SA/Aus
I'd imagine Razors current team would have won each of these iterations.
That's an interesting analysis.
What you seem to be saying is Foster didn't have the opportunity to develop his team due to lack of competitive opportunities. When 2022/3 came around and he was up against decent opposition his team kicked on and almost won the RWC.
That actually makes sense - hopefully Robertson will kick on earlier.
-
@Victor-Meldrew or Ryan arrived
-
@KiwiMurph said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
On the other hand our attack looks worryingly basic and question marks remain about the selectors ability to make some tough calls - so far they haven't had to but push is going to come to shove in a month or so.
They need a kicking coach desperately and more expertise with NH refs.
I don't see our attack working up north - unless we make some tough selection decisions combined with some variation in our pattern.
We need to let TJP retire.
Take ALB for example - he's looked brilliant at 12 but poor at 13 and 23. Is he going to get a shot at 12 or continued to be shoehorned into the 23 or 13 jerseys?
ALB should concentrate on 12, as a glue player, even though they play him at 12 and 13 off the bench I don't think he suits there-he isn't really an impact player.
England Ireland France in the space of 14 days is going to show us exactly where we are at.
it is a very tough schedule, if they win 2 out of 3 I would be happy.
The positive side of that very difficult 3 game stretch is there will almost certainly be a variety of players given opportunities due to injuries almost guaranteed to occur.
Positive way to look at it, and injury has been a good selector this year (and earlier years).
