If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?
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I'm in two minds
On one hand we look to be developing and the squad seems to be evolving - young players are taking their opportunities which is great to see.
On the other hand our attack looks worryingly basic and question marks remain about the selectors ability to make some tough calls - so far they haven't had to but push is going to come to shove in a month or so.
I don't see our attack working up north - unless we make some tough selection decisions combined with some variation in our pattern.
Take ALB for example - he's looked brilliant at 12 but poor at 13 and 23. Is he going to get a shot at 12 or continued to be shoehorned into the 23 or 13 jerseys?
England Ireland France in the space of 14 days is going to show us exactly where we are at.
The positive side of that very difficult 3 game stretch is there will almost certainly be a variety of players given opportunities due to injuries almost guaranteed to occur.
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@sparky said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner The interesting call is Jordie Barrett or ALB at 12. Much though I admire Jordie's skills and talent, ALB gave a more composed performance today and made better decisions.
Further complicated by the decision to make Jordie vice captain
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@KiwiMurph said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@sparky said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner The interesting call is Jordie Barrett or ALB at 12. Much though I admire Jordie's skills and talent, ALB gave a more composed performance today and made better decisions.
Further complicated by the decision to make Jordie vice captain
and Ardie
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@kpkanz said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Our propping depth is insane
We are not far off from clicking
The Doommongery on here is insane.Just like we weren't far off clicking in the last 3 years.
That was NEVER the vibe under Foster.
That's why it was so miserable. There was no potential with that miserable game plan under that regime. If we executed it to 100% efficiency we still would have lost as we did.
We got the results our game plan deserved and didn't look like we were improving or had ANY semblance of being dominant at any point.
When we won it looked like we had to grind and get lucky and hope the opposition screwed up.
Even when things improved under Schmidt/Ryan it still looked like we needed others to underperform to have a shot and maximize the very few opportunities we'd have during the game.
With the current team it looks like we're capable of completely blowing any team off the park. We've had extremely dominant spells where it's out of the other teams hands and feels as if its up to us whether the score finishes 20-10 or 50-10.
28-5 after 20 mins against Aussie.
40-0 at 40 mins against Argentina.
27-14 up against SA in SA (4 tries to 1 up) before our capitulation.All that just to say Foster has a superior RC record.
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Against England Ireland and France we are in the game.
The reason pure and simple is the strong tight 5 and halfbacks. Tosi , de Groot, Lomax, tMW, Newell, Taylor, Aumua, Darry, Barrett , Vaai , Ratima, DMac is a hand full for anyone. We do have our own bomb squad now.
Lack of speed at 7 needs to be addressed. Need to commit with involvement of Paps/ Lakai to support Cane.
An option is Cane and Savea providing starch off the bench. -
@Mr-Fish said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Was that a common perception on here...?
Was for me. We'd play one game or half absolutely brilliantly and go to complete shit in the next with pretty much the same players.
The only consistent thing was the inconsistency. Still there.
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@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
The Doommongery on here is insane.
The player stocks are much better with the likes of Vaai & Williams coming of age and finds like Sititi. The potential is there, but so is the flakiness of the team - worse in some ways.
A few close games on the EOYT where we cut out the headless chicken stuff might be the catalyst for change.
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@Victor-Meldrew I'd agree with that. It's obvious we are improving though. We are adding too many keepers not to.
For Xmas we need a 7 and sort out 12-13 -
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@kpkanz said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Our propping depth is insane
We are not far off from clicking
The Doommongery on here is insane.Just like we weren't far off clicking in the last 3 years.
That was NEVER the vibe under Foster.
That's why it was so miserable. There was no potential with that miserable game plan under that regime. If we executed it to 100% efficiency we still would have lost as we did.
We got the results our game plan deserved and didn't look like we were improving or had ANY semblance of being dominant at any point.
When we won it looked like we had to grind and get lucky and hope the opposition screwed up.
Even when things improved under Schmidt/Ryan it still looked like we needed others to underperform to have a shot and maximize the very few opportunities we'd have during the game.
With the current team it looks like we're capable of completely blowing any team off the park. We've had extremely dominant spells where it's out of the other teams hands and feels as if its up to us whether the score finishes 20-10 or 50-10.
28-5 after 20 mins against Aussie.
40-0 at 40 mins against Argentina.
27-14 up against SA in SA (4 tries to 1 up) before our capitulation.All that just to say Foster has a superior RC record.
Done this before but Fosters RC wins for context..
2020 - No SA
2021 - No away games to SA/Arg due to covid
2022 - the only actual home/away RC, get smashed the first away SA game, we win the next away game to win the championship, that win was the famous Ellis park win where it was very public knowledge Foster would be fired if we lost, players went all out, very much an anomaly considering the extreme situation
2023 - shortened RC, only 3 games, 2 home games vs SA/Aus
I'd imagine Razors current team would have won each of these iterations.
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@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
For Xmas we need a 7 and sort out 12-13
I do wonder if Sititi might give us the options to unlock the 6/7/8 balance conundrum we've had for a while.
12-13 has been an issue for years. Think we need to ask if RI is going to kick on any more at 13 and if Proctor is the answer. Unsure about 12. JB not spectacular but solid - nothing wrong with that - so see how he goes with another 13.
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@kpkanz said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@kpkanz said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Our propping depth is insane
We are not far off from clicking
The Doommongery on here is insane.Just like we weren't far off clicking in the last 3 years.
That was NEVER the vibe under Foster.
That's why it was so miserable. There was no potential with that miserable game plan under that regime. If we executed it to 100% efficiency we still would have lost as we did.
We got the results our game plan deserved and didn't look like we were improving or had ANY semblance of being dominant at any point.
When we won it looked like we had to grind and get lucky and hope the opposition screwed up.
Even when things improved under Schmidt/Ryan it still looked like we needed others to underperform to have a shot and maximize the very few opportunities we'd have during the game.
With the current team it looks like we're capable of completely blowing any team off the park. We've had extremely dominant spells where it's out of the other teams hands and feels as if its up to us whether the score finishes 20-10 or 50-10.
28-5 after 20 mins against Aussie.
40-0 at 40 mins against Argentina.
27-14 up against SA in SA (4 tries to 1 up) before our capitulation.All that just to say Foster has a superior RC record.
Done this before but Fosters RC wins for context..
2020 - No SA
2021 - No away games to SA/Arg due to covid
2022 - the only actual home/away RC, get smashed the first away SA game, we win the next away game to win the championship, that win was the famous Ellis park win where it was very public knowledge Foster would be fired if we lost, players went all out, very much an anomaly considering the extreme situation
2023 - shortened RC, only 3 games, 2 home games vs SA/Aus
I'd imagine Razors current team would have won each of these iterations.
You can imagine Razor naked in your bedroom too if that floats your boat, but that's not real life either.
50% win record.
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@kpkanz said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@kpkanz said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Our propping depth is insane
We are not far off from clicking
The Doommongery on here is insane.Just like we weren't far off clicking in the last 3 years.
That was NEVER the vibe under Foster.
That's why it was so miserable. There was no potential with that miserable game plan under that regime. If we executed it to 100% efficiency we still would have lost as we did.
We got the results our game plan deserved and didn't look like we were improving or had ANY semblance of being dominant at any point.
When we won it looked like we had to grind and get lucky and hope the opposition screwed up.
Even when things improved under Schmidt/Ryan it still looked like we needed others to underperform to have a shot and maximize the very few opportunities we'd have during the game.
With the current team it looks like we're capable of completely blowing any team off the park. We've had extremely dominant spells where it's out of the other teams hands and feels as if its up to us whether the score finishes 20-10 or 50-10.
28-5 after 20 mins against Aussie.
40-0 at 40 mins against Argentina.
27-14 up against SA in SA (4 tries to 1 up) before our capitulation.All that just to say Foster has a superior RC record.
Done this before but Fosters RC wins for context..
2020 - No SA
2021 - No away games to SA/Arg due to covid
2022 - the only actual home/away RC, get smashed the first away SA game, we win the next away game to win the championship, that win was the famous Ellis park win where it was very public knowledge Foster would be fired if we lost, players went all out, very much an anomaly considering the extreme situation
2023 - shortened RC, only 3 games, 2 home games vs SA/Aus
I'd imagine Razors current team would have won each of these iterations.
That's an interesting analysis.
What you seem to be saying is Foster didn't have the opportunity to develop his team due to lack of competitive opportunities. When 2022/3 came around and he was up against decent opposition his team kicked on and almost won the RWC.
That actually makes sense - hopefully Robertson will kick on earlier.
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@Victor-Meldrew or Ryan arrived
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@KiwiMurph said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
On the other hand our attack looks worryingly basic and question marks remain about the selectors ability to make some tough calls - so far they haven't had to but push is going to come to shove in a month or so.
They need a kicking coach desperately and more expertise with NH refs.
I don't see our attack working up north - unless we make some tough selection decisions combined with some variation in our pattern.
We need to let TJP retire.
Take ALB for example - he's looked brilliant at 12 but poor at 13 and 23. Is he going to get a shot at 12 or continued to be shoehorned into the 23 or 13 jerseys?
ALB should concentrate on 12, as a glue player, even though they play him at 12 and 13 off the bench I don't think he suits there-he isn't really an impact player.
England Ireland France in the space of 14 days is going to show us exactly where we are at.
it is a very tough schedule, if they win 2 out of 3 I would be happy.
The positive side of that very difficult 3 game stretch is there will almost certainly be a variety of players given opportunities due to injuries almost guaranteed to occur.
Positive way to look at it, and injury has been a good selector this year (and earlier years).
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@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Victor-Meldrew or Ryan arrived
He hasn't left - but it's still been a poor year.
Increasingly think NZR should have insisted on a Schmidt or Cotter in the set-up
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@Victor-Meldrew said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Victor-Meldrew or Ryan arrived
He hasn't left - but it's still been a poor year.
Increasingly think NZR should have insisted on a Schmidt or Cotter in the set-up
If results aren't good up North, perhaps Razor will have some coaching changes forced on him as Fozzie did
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@canefan said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Victor-Meldrew or Ryan arrived
He hasn't left - but it's still been a poor year.
Increasingly think NZR should have insisted on a Schmidt or Cotter in the set-up
If results aren't good up North, perhaps Razor will have some coaching changes forced on him as Fozzie did
Foster always wanted Schmidt but he wasn't available and there was clearly an uptick when he joined.
As I've said before, if Robertson called on Wayne Smith for help after the Bled 1 debacle, that's really good news. If things don't go well up North, maybe start looking at getting him involved in a more hands-on role
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@canefan said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Victor-Meldrew or Ryan arrived
He hasn't left - but it's still been a poor year.
Increasingly think NZR should have insisted on a Schmidt or Cotter in the set-up
If results aren't good up North, perhaps Razor will have some coaching changes forced on him as Fozzie did
As much as I complain, I'd still like to give him more than 6 months with his desired team. Give him at least until end of RC next year to get on with it and make sure he has every piece in place (I won't be surprised at more coaching changes). But if there's no improvement then come down a lot harder on him - he's got to live and die by the sword and so far selection is cutting sharp.
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@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@canefan said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Victor-Meldrew or Ryan arrived
He hasn't left - but it's still been a poor year.
Increasingly think NZR should have insisted on a Schmidt or Cotter in the set-up
If results aren't good up North, perhaps Razor will have some coaching changes forced on him as Fozzie did
As much as I complain, I'd still like to give him more than 6 months with his desired team. Give him at least until end of RC next year to get on with it and make sure he has every piece in place (I won't be surprised at more coaching changes). But if there's no improvement then come down a lot harder on him - he's got to live and die by the sword and so far selection is cutting sharp.
NZR need to actually support him too. Don't want to see the sort of PR/HR media-briefing shit we saw with Foster again.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Machpants said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Ok so we won, I'm not happy with progress. My happiness will be seeing if razor had the guts to leave a fair few behind and bring others in. And who he plays in the 23
He had the opportunity to do that in this game and didn't. I think we'll see pretty much the same squad on the EOYT with maybe Lakai and poss. another midfielder added.
Robertson will be looking for results rather than development after coming 3rd in the RC. Wasted opportunity IMHO.
2nd
