Springboks vs All Blacks 2
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@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Brandon said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Some fragility there. Lineout will be under pressure if Nortje doesn’t go full 80. If a lock needs replacing and Kolisi plays the usual 60, Wiese will have to play the full 80.
What do you reckon they're thinking about our lineout with one small lock, and 3 small loosies, with another small loosie on the bench?
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@nostrildamus said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
How about Perofeta at 15? He seemed ok there for the ABs I thought..
me too, it really bugs me when these guys get a shot...actually do well...but are forgotten as soon as the first choice is free again, shows a rigidity and makes me question how much the coaches are actually making decisions based on what they see on the field or rather just sticking to their preseason plans regardless
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@reprobate said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Kiwiwomble said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@reprobate said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Kiwiwomble said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Stag said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Kiwiwomble you are appropriately named. Blackadder has been in of the best AB’s this season and clearly would have started again.
are their any stats to back up he's one of the best ABs? leading tackle count? dominant tackles? even rucks hit? turnovers?
Yeah there are some, as discussed in the Argie tests. He's performed better than the other loosies in terms of numbers.
Seems to me like some can't get over the fact he didn't deserve selection in the first place off fuck-all game time, and want a Crusader to blame so they can claim Razor has bias against their provincial favourite.
I wasn't a fan of picking him initially, but he's earned his starting spot, by playing considerably better than the other guys selected.would love to see the numbers if you have a link
apologies mate i can't be arsed googling it all again. I'm not a Cantab, I'm not particularly a Blackadder fan, and i've already put in way too much effort defending a guy who I think is clearly playing well when all you get in response is 'yeah okay fine, I guess he does heaps of stuff, but where's the impact' - which is just vague unproveable shit from people with a bias.
not much different to those talking him up without the numbers though is it?
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@Kiwiwomble said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@reprobate said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Kiwiwomble said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@reprobate said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Kiwiwomble said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Stag said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Kiwiwomble you are appropriately named. Blackadder has been in of the best AB’s this season and clearly would have started again.
are their any stats to back up he's one of the best ABs? leading tackle count? dominant tackles? even rucks hit? turnovers?
Yeah there are some, as discussed in the Argie tests. He's performed better than the other loosies in terms of numbers.
Seems to me like some can't get over the fact he didn't deserve selection in the first place off fuck-all game time, and want a Crusader to blame so they can claim Razor has bias against their provincial favourite.
I wasn't a fan of picking him initially, but he's earned his starting spot, by playing considerably better than the other guys selected.would love to see the numbers if you have a link
apologies mate i can't be arsed googling it all again. I'm not a Cantab, I'm not particularly a Blackadder fan, and i've already put in way too much effort defending a guy who I think is clearly playing well when all you get in response is 'yeah okay fine, I guess he does heaps of stuff, but where's the impact' - which is just vague unproveable shit from people with a bias.
not much different to those talking him up without the numbers though is it?
No, it's not because there are some numbers (not that these are the be-all). Read the argie test threads if you want to find them, or google them yourself..
He's been good to my eyes (and plenty of others), and there are stats to back it up. -
@Kiwiwomble said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
me too, it really bugs me when these guys get a shot...actually do well...but are forgotten as soon as the first choice is free
selection clearly isn't based on form
I think they're wanting to play an expansive gameplan, but who knows. If you do, you don't pick TJP - you select the best passers.
Frankly our defence is the major headache that is getting a pass. We've shipped a lot of points this season, 38 against Argentina really hurts
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@reprobate have tried googling...cant find much positive stats wise (7 runs for 2m kind of stuff)...hence asking those talking him up where they have seen the stats to back up he's been good
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@Kiwiwomble rugbypass has some on the game page, but not ruck stats e.g. https://www.rugbypass.com/live/argentina-vs-new-zealand/stats/?g=941451.
There were some ruck stats floating around too but can't remember where sorry.
The interesting part of it for me has been the different ways they've used Blackadder and Savea in different games: sometimes it looks like either is tasked with a heap of carries, sometimes with a heap of tackling. Cane just tackles. -
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ok against SA EB was 3rd for carries with 13 for 20m (7th for m's carried)
zero breaks
zero defenders beaten
4th for tackles completed 13 made and 2 missed (zero dominant, 8 other guys made at least one dominant tackle)
zero turnovers
one offloadmost telling for me other than zero dominant tackles is for all of those at least one of the other loosies was ahead of him, he didn't top any of them, so even the idea hes better than the others who are not playing well doesn't really hold up
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@Snowy said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
At least Robertson's rolled the dice - even if he has been forced to by injury.
Yeah. An expression that I have just started to embrace in life - "if nothing changes, nothing changes".
If things haven't been working, then keep changing it until they do. Obviously as wisely as possible, but at some stage it just might have to be a massive gamble that turns things around. I am an adventurous type though.
Agreed, and youd have to think that the law of averages would dictate one of Ratima, Jordan or Sititi will be ever present in their new role from this weekend onwards.
Someone always seizes their chance.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
ok against SA EB was 3rd for carries with 13 for 20m (7th for m's carried)
zero breaks
zero defenders beaten
4th for tackles completed 13 made and 2 missed (zero dominant, 8 other guys made at least one dominant tackle)
zero turnovers
one offloadmost telling for me other than zero dominant tackles is for all of those at least one of the other loosies was ahead of him, he didn't top any of them, so even the idea hes better than the others who are not playing well doesn't really hold up
Yeah, not quite accurate though.
Firstly, Cane and Savea didn't play badly in that game, they were significantly better than they had been in previous games.
Secondly, Blackadder was the loosie subbed, so his stats are spread over fewer minutes. Per minute he tops the carries (he and Ardie with miles more than Cane) and is clear in 2nd to Cane in tackles.Dominant tackles are all well and good, but any stat where people get 1 or 2 of them per game is not worth drawing conclusions from other than on a multi-game basis. Beauden Barrett got the most apparently - is he our biggest hitter?
Savea conceded 2 turnovers. Cane was lucky to avoid a yellow card.
Neither of the other loosies made a turnover either.
Cane could go a season without making a linebreak.
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@mariner4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Aaaahhh, do we remember what TJP used to be like off the bench? Calm and measured are not words I would use.
Headless and frantic would be betterYou forgot master of diplomacy with the referees
All jokes aside, I suspect Razor has told him he needs his senior HB to close out the game which we have failed to do. Probably asking him explicitly to demonstrate leadership
Now if he fails, which we are all expecting him to do based on previous evidence, then we all laugh/cry and then vent online and I wouldn't be surprised if it was sort of a last chance for a few ABs.
Sure don't have a lot of depth, but Razor appears to want players who can follow instructions and a few fall over here and he is one.
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It's so sad that we are at "damning with faint praise" for the loosies.
Outplayed in so many tests this year.Blackadder wasn't so much a problem last week, he worked his ringpiece off. It's just he doesn't do much to make a difference.
That zero turnover stat is disgusting. And wouldn't be the first time.
I remember about 4 months ago when we were pulling ourselves off about our loose forward depth. Thrn we started 3 guys that didn't even play super rugby.
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@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@OomPB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Webb We havent won since 2005 in Cape Town, with Willie and Pollard back I will make the All Blacks the favorites. Glad Moodie got the nod. Kitshoff, BJD & Mapimpi straight back in CC this weekend.
Remember that game well. We had just come off the Lions tour and Matfield hit Kelleher with a big swinging arm and late. Kelleher was dazed but stayed on and threw a wild pass that was intercepted. Then he went off and we bought on a young Weepu who was only playing his second test.
Mils started on the left wing for the first (and only) time in his test career. DC had one of his worst tests too.
When rotation was in full swing (and worked well tbf).
Leon MacDonald started the next test between the sides in Dunedin at 10 if memory serves me right.
I think the peak of rotation started in 2006 - the whole 2 sides etc.
It was a little left field Mils starting there given he hadn’t played wing for the ABs prior. I don’t get too worked up when I see coaches trying stuff like that.
Rangi played 10 in the next fixture against the Boks but that was 3 weeks after this one. I think DC got injured in one of the Aussie matches in between those two Bok matches
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@brodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
I'm not a fan of Sam Cane in recent years but he cleans and is more effective at the breakdown than Blackadder.
And he stops people dead in their tracks.
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@brodean I have loved the Michael Jones and Ardie Savea type of 7s who are great runners. Richie was not as good but could do a job. Sam Cane in comparison was not good and seems a bit slow but he’s grown on me. He tackles well, and if he hits a heap of rucks then, I think he can do enough to contribute toward a good game for the team. Just don’t expect him to be a great runner.
I’m guessing they are hoping that if South Africa are looking to shut Ardies go forward down, then hopefully Satiti can provide another dynamic running game to split the defence.
