Springboks vs All Blacks 2
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@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@reprobate said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@junior said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@reprobate said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@junior said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@No-Quarter said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
On the loose forwards, it does concern me that a bunch of people on a forum known for awful analysis, incorrect conclusions and zero insight could see the problems with the squad selections as soon as they were announced, but the coaching group being paid the big bucks couldn't.
The problem is that because Razor was appointed so long ago he and his assistants have had ages to plan and prepare and formulate their squad and the game plan they want to play - obviously lots of Crusaders involved in those plans but not exclusively. And then super rugby happens and the Crusaders are shit and lots of blokes who weren’t in his plans show form and talent. So what we end up with is a complete mishmash that lacks balance in key areas, form, fitness, and also players who complement each other and who can implement the game plan that the coaches want to play. I will give Razor this year to move on from the crusaders and realise he’s the national coach responsible for coaching a team to play and win test matches.
This is a total load of horse-shit, and I'm not a Crusaders fan.
Which Crusaders have let the side down? Taylor? Scott Barrett? Tamaiti Williams? Blackadder? Or are you laying the blame all at Fletcher Newell's feet? Fuck he must be influential.
The underperforming players are from other super teams. The only controversial crusaders selection who has actually been playing has been Blackadder, and he's been good. Get your parochial chip off your shoulder.Reading comprehension not your strong suit is it? Where did I say that Crusaders players have let the side down?
What I have said is that the selections and game plan appears to be muddled, with square pegs being put in round holes and a lack of balance across the squad but particularly in key areas such as the back row. I surmised why this might be the case - ie lots of time to make plans regarding selections and tactics which have then been disrupted by unexpected form and talent.
Anyway keep jumping at shadows chief.
So what exactly then re the back row? You think he was expecting to select Grace but couldn't and that's messed it all up?
There was certainly a lot of discussion around that before the first squad naming.
Regardless we can all agree that not having added Sotutu has certainly reduced their options given the form of Ardie.
You are again misreading what I am saying.
Looking at the backrow, what I am saying is that Razor has largely made plans and stuck to them but they appear to be backfiring because key cogs have been either seriously short of a gallop (Blackadder, Cane) or seriously out of form (Ardie and Paps to a lesser extent). Of the form backrowers in this year's SR comp, he has elected to pick the most inexperienced (Finau, Sititi), who he probably was not planning on picking when appointed, and it appears that they are not yet up to test footy. Add in an injury or two - which happens every single test season so is not an excuse - and the back row is now looking like a complete mess and the area of most concern - which is quite amazing given our historical strength in this area and the fact that it's Razor's former position and area of responsibility.
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Yeh I've been thinking Ardie is in danger of being burnt out but Razor can't trust the replacements to be replacements for any considerable period of time. Hope I'm wrong.
Was also thinking what impact player are we missing that could really turn things around from the bench and the first person I thought was Big Leicester. Shame maybe he is overseas. -
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@BorderJB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Would like to throw a couple things out:
Paps at 8 with Cane and Blackadder, I think as much as Blackadder doesn't dominate, he's goes well with a Cane like player.
Having Paps at 8 gives us more options as a link player in the middle, as well as a ball runner in the wider channels.Also changes around 9,10,12: At the moment it looks like theres too many leaders or playmakers, it looks a bit confusing, Ratima would be a more passing half to let Dmac run things and outside him ALB as a non playmaking 12.
While the backline went well in certain areas against SA, We need to get more out of it.Never mind a bit of lateral thinking but the practical reality is that your suggestions are dropping the two vice captains.
Also, not sure how much practice Papali’i has at trapping the ball at a scrum, running off the base, linking with the halfback. Also he’s very rarely used as a lineout option and at 8 we need an option (which Ardie provides).
He played once there for the Blues last season against the Highlanders and had an absolute mare. It was actually comical watching him attempt to play 8, similar to some of the opinions on here of late.
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@chchfanatic said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
1 Williams
2 Taylor
3 Lomax
4 Barrett
5 Vaai
6 Sititi
7 Cane
8 Savea
9 Ratima
10 McKenzie
11 Telea
12 Barrett
13 Ioane
14 Reece
15 Jordan
16 Aumua
17 Ofa
18 Newell
19 Darry
20 Jacobsen
21 TJP
22 Barrett
23 ALBBlackadder injured?
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@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@chchfanatic said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
1 Williams
2 Taylor
3 Lomax
4 Barrett
5 Vaai
6 Sititi
7 Cane
8 Savea
9 Ratima
10 McKenzie
11 Telea
12 Barrett
13 Ioane
14 Reece
15 Jordan
16 Aumua
17 Ofa
18 Newell
19 Darry
20 Jacobsen
21 TJP
22 Barrett
23 ALBBlackadder injured?
Highly doubt it.
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@reprobate said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@brodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Yes I've already said he had a good workrate.
PsDT, Kaino and Juan Smith all had good workrates but they hit hard and thats the difference. These are the last three blindsides to win World Cups. Do you honestly believe that Blackadder has the upside of these players?
He's never going to be a world class blindside. There are players in NZ with the potential to be that. Finau certainly has the athletic ability he just needs some consistent opportunity and guidance. He did well enough against England and should have been persevered with.
So he's not as good as 3 of the best ever so shouldn't play.
If that's your logic, how are we going to even field a team?The point being, he had access to Akira who everybody knows has the talent to be world class, in career best form, who also absolutely dominated the SR finals. Instead he picked a guy that has spent most of his career injured, and two rookies that Akira dominated in the final which is the closest thing we have to test footy at that level. So yes, when we watch Blackadder struggling to make an impact, we become critical.
I'm becoming a broken record on this so will try and make this my last post, but the Blues backrow dominated Super rugby and were influential in the finals. It absolutely pains me that we not only left 2 of them out all together, but it's now become an area of significant weakness for us.
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@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@BorderJB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Would like to throw a couple things out:
Paps at 8 with Cane and Blackadder, I think as much as Blackadder doesn't dominate, he's goes well with a Cane like player.
Having Paps at 8 gives us more options as a link player in the middle, as well as a ball runner in the wider channels.Also changes around 9,10,12: At the moment it looks like theres too many leaders or playmakers, it looks a bit confusing, Ratima would be a more passing half to let Dmac run things and outside him ALB as a non playmaking 12.
While the backline went well in certain areas against SA, We need to get more out of it.Never mind a bit of lateral thinking but the practical reality is that your suggestions are dropping the two vice captains.
Also, not sure how much practice Papali’i has at trapping the ball at a scrum, running off the base, linking with the halfback. Also he’s very rarely used as a lineout option and at 8 we need an option (which Ardie provides).
He played once there for the Blues last season against the Highlanders and had an absolute mare. It was actually comical watching him attempt to play 8, similar to some of the opinions on here of late.
Yeah I do recall him being there and it’s just not his thing. Where as someone like Messam it was a pretty natural switch from 8 to 6 and vice versa. Chris Masoe was also a very decent 7 that was a better no8.
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@nostrildamus said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Maybe we don't have the right depth, the right selection, good enough players, the best possible coaching.
Or maybe it is an onfield leadership problem.Or all of the above
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@No-Quarter said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@reprobate said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@brodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Yes I've already said he had a good workrate.
PsDT, Kaino and Juan Smith all had good workrates but they hit hard and thats the difference. These are the last three blindsides to win World Cups. Do you honestly believe that Blackadder has the upside of these players?
He's never going to be a world class blindside. There are players in NZ with the potential to be that. Finau certainly has the athletic ability he just needs some consistent opportunity and guidance. He did well enough against England and should have been persevered with.
So he's not as good as 3 of the best ever so shouldn't play.
If that's your logic, how are we going to even field a team?The point being, he had access to Akira who everybody knows has the talent to be world class, in career best form, who also absolutely dominated the SR finals. Instead he picked a guy that has spent most of his career injured, and two rookies that Akira dominated in the final which is the closest thing we have to test footy at that level. So yes, when we watch Blackadder struggling to make an impact, we become critical.
I'm becoming a broken record on this so will try and make this my last post, but the Blues backrow dominated Super rugby and were influential in the finals. It absolutely pains me that we not only left out 2 of them all together, but it's now become an area of significant weakness for us.
Settle down. Running riot in sevens is no guarantee of 15s dominance. He had a few chances beforehand.
But yeah, he should have been picked in the squad at least.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@BorderJB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Would like to throw a couple things out:
Paps at 8 with Cane and Blackadder, I think as much as Blackadder doesn't dominate, he's goes well with a Cane like player.
Having Paps at 8 gives us more options as a link player in the middle, as well as a ball runner in the wider channels.Also changes around 9,10,12: At the moment it looks like theres too many leaders or playmakers, it looks a bit confusing, Ratima would be a more passing half to let Dmac run things and outside him ALB as a non playmaking 12.
While the backline went well in certain areas against SA, We need to get more out of it.Never mind a bit of lateral thinking but the practical reality is that your suggestions are dropping the two vice captains.
Also, not sure how much practice Papali’i has at trapping the ball at a scrum, running off the base, linking with the halfback. Also he’s very rarely used as a lineout option and at 8 we need an option (which Ardie provides).
He played once there for the Blues last season against the Highlanders and had an absolute mare. It was actually comical watching him attempt to play 8, similar to some of the opinions on here of late.
Yeah I do recall him being there and it’s just not his thing. Where as someone like Messam it was a pretty natural switch from 8 to 6 and vice versa. Chris Masoe was also a very decent 7 that was a better no8.
Papalii is an interesting case because he's built like a 6/8 but only plays as a 7. Technically he's very good at all aspects as a 7, but he lacks the bulk and power to play anywhere else, especially on the carry.
He reminds me of the northern hemisphere loosies of the 2010s Chris Robshaw and Sam Warburton.
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@MN5 said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@No-Quarter said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@reprobate said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@brodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Yes I've already said he had a good workrate.
PsDT, Kaino and Juan Smith all had good workrates but they hit hard and thats the difference. These are the last three blindsides to win World Cups. Do you honestly believe that Blackadder has the upside of these players?
He's never going to be a world class blindside. There are players in NZ with the potential to be that. Finau certainly has the athletic ability he just needs some consistent opportunity and guidance. He did well enough against England and should have been persevered with.
So he's not as good as 3 of the best ever so shouldn't play.
If that's your logic, how are we going to even field a team?The point being, he had access to Akira who everybody knows has the talent to be world class, in career best form, who also absolutely dominated the SR finals. Instead he picked a guy that has spent most of his career injured, and two rookies that Akira dominated in the final which is the closest thing we have to test footy at that level. So yes, when we watch Blackadder struggling to make an impact, we become critical.
I'm becoming a broken record on this so will try and make this my last post, but the Blues backrow dominated Super rugby and were influential in the finals. It absolutely pains me that we not only left out 2 of them all together, but it's now become an area of significant weakness for us.
Running riot in sevens is no guarantee of 15s dominance.
But yeah, he should have been picked.
He should have picked the form players Sotutu and Akira, then if they failed he could say "see?!" and bin them and no one would have any complaints, or if they ripped up trees as per SR he would have been able to ride them to some wins and look like a genius. Just a no brainer. But instead he picks a bunch of players who seem on the way down since 23, a couple of long shots from the team that got pumped by the eventual winners of SR, and some Saders who most would argue didn't earn their place on SR form and lacked miles. What a glut for punishment he is
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@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@BorderJB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Would like to throw a couple things out:
Paps at 8 with Cane and Blackadder, I think as much as Blackadder doesn't dominate, he's goes well with a Cane like player.
Having Paps at 8 gives us more options as a link player in the middle, as well as a ball runner in the wider channels.Also changes around 9,10,12: At the moment it looks like theres too many leaders or playmakers, it looks a bit confusing, Ratima would be a more passing half to let Dmac run things and outside him ALB as a non playmaking 12.
While the backline went well in certain areas against SA, We need to get more out of it.Never mind a bit of lateral thinking but the practical reality is that your suggestions are dropping the two vice captains.
Also, not sure how much practice Papali’i has at trapping the ball at a scrum, running off the base, linking with the halfback. Also he’s very rarely used as a lineout option and at 8 we need an option (which Ardie provides).
He played once there for the Blues last season against the Highlanders and had an absolute mare. It was actually comical watching him attempt to play 8, similar to some of the opinions on here of late.
Yeah I do recall him being there and it’s just not his thing. Where as someone like Messam it was a pretty natural switch from 8 to 6 and vice versa. Chris Masoe was also a very decent 7 that was a better no8.
Papalii is an interesting case because he's built like a 6/8 but only plays as a 7. Technically he's very good at all aspects as a 7, but he lacks the bulk and power to play anywhere else, especially on the carry.
He reminds me of the northern hemisphere loosies of the 2010s Chris Robshaw and Sam Warburton.
Warburton is a very good comparison.
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@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@BorderJB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Would like to throw a couple things out:
Paps at 8 with Cane and Blackadder, I think as much as Blackadder doesn't dominate, he's goes well with a Cane like player.
Having Paps at 8 gives us more options as a link player in the middle, as well as a ball runner in the wider channels.Also changes around 9,10,12: At the moment it looks like theres too many leaders or playmakers, it looks a bit confusing, Ratima would be a more passing half to let Dmac run things and outside him ALB as a non playmaking 12.
While the backline went well in certain areas against SA, We need to get more out of it.Never mind a bit of lateral thinking but the practical reality is that your suggestions are dropping the two vice captains.
Also, not sure how much practice Papali’i has at trapping the ball at a scrum, running off the base, linking with the halfback. Also he’s very rarely used as a lineout option and at 8 we need an option (which Ardie provides).
He played once there for the Blues last season against the Highlanders and had an absolute mare. It was actually comical watching him attempt to play 8, similar to some of the opinions on here of late.
Yeah I do recall him being there and it’s just not his thing. Where as someone like Messam it was a pretty natural switch from 8 to 6 and vice versa. Chris Masoe was also a very decent 7 that was a better no8.
Papalii is an interesting case because he's built like a 6/8 but only plays as a 7. Technically he's very good at all aspects as a 7, but he lacks the bulk and power to play anywhere else, especially on the carry.
He reminds me of the northern hemisphere loosies of the 2010s Chris Robshaw and Sam Warburton.
How is 6 4 and 113kg lacking “bulk” ? Perhaps its a technique issue ?
He does look like the kind of athlete who should carve up big metres with the ball in hand to be fair.
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@MN5 said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@BorderJB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Would like to throw a couple things out:
Paps at 8 with Cane and Blackadder, I think as much as Blackadder doesn't dominate, he's goes well with a Cane like player.
Having Paps at 8 gives us more options as a link player in the middle, as well as a ball runner in the wider channels.Also changes around 9,10,12: At the moment it looks like theres too many leaders or playmakers, it looks a bit confusing, Ratima would be a more passing half to let Dmac run things and outside him ALB as a non playmaking 12.
While the backline went well in certain areas against SA, We need to get more out of it.Never mind a bit of lateral thinking but the practical reality is that your suggestions are dropping the two vice captains.
Also, not sure how much practice Papali’i has at trapping the ball at a scrum, running off the base, linking with the halfback. Also he’s very rarely used as a lineout option and at 8 we need an option (which Ardie provides).
He played once there for the Blues last season against the Highlanders and had an absolute mare. It was actually comical watching him attempt to play 8, similar to some of the opinions on here of late.
Yeah I do recall him being there and it’s just not his thing. Where as someone like Messam it was a pretty natural switch from 8 to 6 and vice versa. Chris Masoe was also a very decent 7 that was a better no8.
Papalii is an interesting case because he's built like a 6/8 but only plays as a 7. Technically he's very good at all aspects as a 7, but he lacks the bulk and power to play anywhere else, especially on the carry.
He reminds me of the northern hemisphere loosies of the 2010s Chris Robshaw and Sam Warburton.
How is 6 4 and 113kg lacking “bulk” ? Perhaps its a technique issue ?
In general life, no, he ain't lacking bulk. At international rugby level, yes, he lacks 'extra' bulk to be effective as a 6/8, and trust me, I really like the guy for what he does for the Blues, but I'm not gonna like about what I see.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@BorderJB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Would like to throw a couple things out:
Paps at 8 with Cane and Blackadder, I think as much as Blackadder doesn't dominate, he's goes well with a Cane like player.
Having Paps at 8 gives us more options as a link player in the middle, as well as a ball runner in the wider channels.Also changes around 9,10,12: At the moment it looks like theres too many leaders or playmakers, it looks a bit confusing, Ratima would be a more passing half to let Dmac run things and outside him ALB as a non playmaking 12.
While the backline went well in certain areas against SA, We need to get more out of it.Never mind a bit of lateral thinking but the practical reality is that your suggestions are dropping the two vice captains.
Also, not sure how much practice Papali’i has at trapping the ball at a scrum, running off the base, linking with the halfback. Also he’s very rarely used as a lineout option and at 8 we need an option (which Ardie provides).
He played once there for the Blues last season against the Highlanders and had an absolute mare. It was actually comical watching him attempt to play 8, similar to some of the opinions on here of late.
Yeah I do recall him being there and it’s just not his thing. Where as someone like Messam it was a pretty natural switch from 8 to 6 and vice versa. Chris Masoe was also a very decent 7 that was a better no8.
Papalii is an interesting case because he's built like a 6/8 but only plays as a 7. Technically he's very good at all aspects as a 7, but he lacks the bulk and power to play anywhere else, especially on the carry.
He reminds me of the northern hemisphere loosies of the 2010s Chris Robshaw and Sam Warburton.
Warburton is a very good comparison.
Warburton was great on the carry, and if he broke a tackle had great top end speed and distribution
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@MiketheSnow Carried by Dan Lydiate
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@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow Carried by Dan Lydiate
Some tackler that lad.
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@Machpants said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Landers92 said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Just been given the backline for this weekend below. Again, this contact hasn’t led me astray before so very reliable. Very very surprised by some choices and the amount of changes which makes you question the accuracy but fuck it, hasn’t been wrong yet so yeah sharing with the fern. Caleb Clarke is out injured.
- Ratima
- Dmac
- Telea
- J.Barrett
- Ioane/ALB(this isn’t yet decided)
- Reece
- Jordan
Bench
21. Perenara
22. B.Barrett
23. Couldn’t quite hear the name or whatever was said there unfortunately, I’m guessing whoever isn’t selected at 13 so either Ioane or ALB.I take it Clarke is injured? Some real improvements (Ratima) , but also telea of no impact? And Jordan is such a risk at full back, he hasn't shown the brains for it
In regards to question about Clarke injured, yes apparently so. Yeah I’m unsure of reasonings and what not, just been told that was the backline so that’s all I can go off for now. If I’m wrong then hey I’ll wear it, but with how accurate its all been I’ll always go ahead and share it on here for everyone to chat about.
