Springboks vs All Blacks 2
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Expect Boks to start with Etzebeth/Nortje/Du Toit. Maximum scrum and maul for first 60.
Perhaps Blacks need to try a similar theme. Start Scooter and Vaa'i. At 55ish Darry on and Vaa'i to 6 for 10 - 15. Hard to know who should be bench loosie. Perhaps Paps on for Niggles at 65 and run left/right flanks, or vice versa. Or could Lord be part of 6-2 bench?
Another thought: Would be very useful to have Codie there at end. Perhaps start Aumua for first 30 and bring on Codie for rest?
As for backs, Ratima on earlier, perhaps 50. It doesn't seem that ALB adds impact. Instead, is very much injury cover. Keep Clarke on for whole 80 if possible. Maybe start Telea and bench Jordan, who can come on in second. Replace DMac/Jordie/Rieko/Telea/Clarke or Beaudy depending how match develops!
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Some good points, decision making is shit. Pinned the finger at Jordie but lost minute Beaudy and DMac un willing to control the game with the boot, are just as had
Analysis: All Blacks' decision making must take share of blame for loss
The talk about a lack of impact from the bench at Ellis Park probably misses the point given the All Blacks' wastefulness, writes Patrick McKendry.
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@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
What Rassie does better than anyone else I believe is select a starting XV which will be in contention at the 50-60 minute mark
I think it's less Rassie than happy circumstance that SA has produced a significant depth when he's been in charge.
He's exploited and managed it well, but I feel he's getting credit for more than he should.
Circumstance have allowed him to implement some of his off the wall ideas.
The depth he has to play with is reminiscent of periods of AB history where the question was not who to select, but who to leave out.
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Yes, we definitely wanted to lose the guys capable of running our set piece, defending mauls etc.
Re-injuring Bell was one Joe's KPIs.
Anyone questioning this on social media is met with the smug outrage of a thousand Bok fans.
Why raise this here?
Because I am officially passing the mantle of "Guardians Of The Game" from you lot to Boks fans.
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@Billy-Webb said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Brandon No apologies needed IMHO. Teams can respond to the Haka how they see fit as look as they don't physically assault the players during the challenge, then I expect the ABs to fight back.
Good sentiment Sparky.
Interestingly enough - the Boks (and Bok fans) relish the tradition and honour of facing the Haka.
Which is why Saturday's debacle probably riled us up more than you Kiwis!
The plane - couldn't be helped. But the stadium DJ... abominable.Oh God don't get me started on stadium DJs who just kill the atmosphere dead every time they blast out whatever awful music they've chosen on the day. An absolute blight.
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@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Because I am officially passing the mantle of "Guardians Of The Game" from you lot to Boks fans.
isn't it 'keepers of the line' like the filthy sandpapering cricketers?
Split the difference: "Keepers Of The Faith"
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@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Because I am officially passing the mantle of "Guardians Of The Game" from you lot to Boks fans.
isn't it 'keepers of the line' like the filthy sandpapering cricketers?
Split the difference: "Keepers Of The Faith"
Even you given up on the Wahs?
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@No-Quarter said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
don't get me started on stadium DJs who just kill the atmosphere dead every time they blast out whatever awful music
they've chosen on the dayfrom Now Thats What I call Music 1996 Disc 1Fixed
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Much has been said about Tony Brown's influence on the bok team. I think they are headed in the wrong direction. When the boks reverted to traditional bash and subdue, they took control and won. The AB's are playing like last years boks, with a lot of kick and hope. Where are the AB game style critics now? @sparky, is the game going to die off?
The boks looked....dare I say it...poorly coached last weekend. The players pulled it through but it was pretty clueless. -
@W32 said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
The boks looked....dare I say it...poorly coached last weekend. The players pulled it through but it was pretty clueless.
The problem with winning game plans is they rarely evolve. The plan they have won 3 consecutive games by a point, and therefore a RWC.
Is Brown's presence noticeable in the fact they'll pass a bit in midfield instead of just playing Clatterball? Maybe. Could just be that they're playing Anyone But Handre at 10, which changes the ability of the team to execute certain plans. Mostly their plan is the same as before: bash up the middle, let the wingers do winger things when in position. The difference is that they're putting it through hands instead of the boot.
I think it was less about being poorly coached and more about new systems and execution. Certainly Reinach at 9 is a bit different to Faf. There was a bit of disruption with early blood and injuries as well.
The ABs could have made a bit more hay with a better scrum half IMHO, as speed of attacking ruck was where they looked ponderous.
One thought I had watching 5 Bok forwards trot out on the park just after halftime: that is a massive advantage over introducing your forward subs piecemeal. Chances are the starting and reserve lineup have trained as units in the leadup, so rather than individuals having to come up to match speed, you have a cohesive unit come on together and grow into the game together.
That might offer advantages in finishing more clinically, and give other coaches food for thought.
Nearly bit them in the arse when a couple of backs started to drop. That's the risk.
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@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@W32 said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
The boks looked....dare I say it...poorly coached last weekend. The players pulled it through but it was pretty clueless.
The problem with winning game plans is they rarely evolve. The plan they have won 3 consecutive games by a point, and therefore a RWC.
Is Brown's presence noticeable in the fact they'll pass a bit in midfield instead of just playing Clatterball? Maybe. Could just be that they're playing Anyone But Handre at 10, which changes the ability of the team to execute certain plans. Mostly their plan is the same as before: bash up the middle, let the wingers do winger things when in position. The difference is that they're putting it through hands instead of the boot.
I think it was less about being poorly coached and more about new systems and execution. Certainly Reinach at 9 is a bit different to Faf. There was a bit of disruption with early blood and injuries as well.
The ABs could have made a bit more hay with a better scrum half IMHO, as speed of attacking ruck was where they looked ponderous.
One thought I had watching 5 Bok forwards trot out on the park just after halftime: that is a massive advantage over introducing your forward subs piecemeal. Chances are the starting and reserve lineup have trained as units in the leadup, so rather than individuals having to come up to match speed, you have a cohesive unit come on together and grow into the game together.
That might offer advantages in finishing more clinically, and give other coaches food for thought.
Nearly bit them in the arse when a couple of backs started to drop. That's the risk.
Yes exactly. They are basically 2 packs that train against each other. The running the ball looks a bit ponderous, almost as if the players don't buy into it.
Scrumhalf is a big concern. Williams great as a sub to lift things. Cobus is starting to show his age. Missed Faf. -
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Because I am officially passing the mantle of "Guardians Of The Game" from you lot to Boks fans.
isn't it 'keepers of the line' like the filthy sandpapering cricketers?
Split the difference: "Keepers Of The Faith"
Oathkeepers?
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@voodoo said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Brandon said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Just an apology from SA Rugby over the timing issue with flyover etc.
Best wishes
BI mean…very generous…but also - it’s also a bit embarrassing to think that some of us kiwis are genuinely upset about this - its a fucking A380, it’s kinda hard to time and manoeuvre perfectly!
All seems a bit precious to me
" its a fucking A380, it’s kinda hard to time and manoeuvre perfectly! "
Um, no it's actually really easy, and happens at pretty much every arrival into every airport, but your point about preciousness remains!
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@Lancaster-Park said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
So for three games in a row our bench hasnt added value.
Who goes onto the bench to improve that?
Loosies still not what we want but do we even have the cattle for what we want?Bench changes:
Savea. Needs a rocket, and a better option than a gunshy and nervous Finau. Sititi to start, we've lost the championship and if you're gonna pick him you should be prepared to play him.
TJP. Just a handbrake. Give Ratima a start, and use the guy who won't be nervous late - which is also when defences are a bit slower and his inaccurate passing is under less pressure.
Taylor. Been very good, but Aumua is clearly feeling the pressure coming on late which is a real risk as lineout thrower - swap roles.
Beauden. Been shit. Historically best as a bench player so may be worth a go in that role. Shat the bed closing out the last game though so may be better off dropping completely out.
I don't see any point in carrying a specialist winger on the bench and subbing them as a matter of course. We have a heap of guys who could cover wing in the event of injury.
ALB is fine. Props are fine. -
@reprobate said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
I don't see any point in carrying a specialist winger on the bench
Razor's stated philosophy is to have players capable of playing two positions. So his massive backline reshuffles may be him actually trying to live that ideal.
I am very cautious of that approach. It's hard enough to get to Test level in one position, let alone two. But ya never know - maybe he's a mad genius who can do things with players that other coaches can't.
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@Smuts said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Because I am officially passing the mantle of "Guardians Of The Game" from you lot to Boks fans.
isn't it 'keepers of the line' like the filthy sandpapering cricketers?
Split the difference: "Keepers Of The Faith"
Oathkeepers?
Pactmakers
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I agree a bench specialist winger is not necessary depending on the backline. I'm thinking we need to replace Cane at 60 minutes, it must take a lot of energy to stop those big bruisers and his tackling seems to get more wayward (ie more dangerous/penallty-prone) later in the game.
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@Snowy said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@voodoo said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Brandon said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Just an apology from SA Rugby over the timing issue with flyover etc.
Best wishes
BI mean…very generous…but also - it’s also a bit embarrassing to think that some of us kiwis are genuinely upset about this - its a fucking A380, it’s kinda hard to time and manoeuvre perfectly!
All seems a bit precious to me
" its a fucking A380, it’s kinda hard to time and manoeuvre perfectly! "
Um, no it's actually really easy, and happens at pretty much every arrival into every airport, but your point about preciousness remains!
And if anyone on this forum would know, it's you Snowy.
Not sure the game management had thought of being in direct contact with air traffic control though... And if they were, the bloomin DJ probably drowned out their comms anyway. -
@W32 said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Much has been said about Tony Brown's influence on the bok team. I think they are headed in the wrong direction. When the boks reverted to traditional bash and subdue, they took control and won. The AB's are playing like last years boks, with a lot of kick and hope. Where are the AB game style critics now? @sparky, is the game going to die off?
The boks looked....dare I say it...poorly coached last weekend. The players pulled it through but it was pretty clueless.Not necessarily.
There were a number of distinct differences on the weekend when the ABs attacked - DMac standing deeper when 1st receiver, the forward carriers + Ioane in a different formation creating space. This showed in both where we were playing also - in the Boks half.
We respected the ball and for a good part of that first 50-60 minutes we showed a bit of poise.What we’ve done for many years now, dating back to Carter, Cruden etc, mixed in Garry Owens but it’s been a while since we had good consistent chasing that made a contest (Howlett, Jane, Dagg).
The chip kicks are hope / prayers that very rarely get answered though and a low % play.
The long cut out balls rather than trusting the process of forward set up, is a recipe for disaster.
