All Blacks vs Wales

Crash

I just think it's a case of wanting to see what Harris can do, while also promoting healthy competition in the team

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="585832" data-time="1465439974">
<div>
Based on the Harris link, he is taller...
 
The Chiefs site has Harris at 110kgs and Saders site has Taylor at 106
</div>
</blockquote>
Huge difference, Massive....could be telling.
 
Or it could be the old fern truism of weights not being updated, in some cases ever.

RoninWC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="585760" data-time="1465421691">
<div>
Different roles I guess, Franks hits harder in the tackle than any other prop in NZ. He's also a big force moving bodies at the breakdown.
 
He's obviously not as fast as coles, and you can't coach natural speed (I definately know this from my own experience as a carthorse )
 
Coles generally plays out in the wider channels waiting for an opportunity to run with the ball. 
 
A team with all tight forwards playing the same style of play as Coles would hardly see the ball.
 
 
Are you John Mitchell? I seem to remember something about him telling his props to save their energy in the scrum so they can be more effective around the field ;)
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Ahhh, a certain Mister Faumuina might take exception to that statement.
 
It's not a contest in which I would want to be the tackling dummy but I'd put my money on Big Charlie to "hit" harder.

taniwharugby

with the change or personell, particularly the backline, I wonder if we will see any significant change of tactics?

Canes4life

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="585927" data-time="1465459145">
<div>
with the change or personell, particularly the backline, I wonder if we will see any significant change of tactics?
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Id say the All Blacks will play a fairly simple, high paced game plan with the outlook of running the Welsh off the park with guys like Ardie and Beauden coming off the bench. They will probably add the flashy stuff as the series moves to the second and third game when combinations start jelling.

Frye

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Frank" data-cid="585824" data-time="1465438341">
Aah...nup <a class="bbc_url" href="https://www.google.com.tw/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=codie+taylor">https://www.google.com.tw/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=codie+taylor</a> <a class="bbc_url" href="https://www.google.com.tw/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=nathan+harris">https://www.google.com.tw/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=nathan+harris</a></blockquote>
 
Meh, my eyes say different. 
It looks like Harris has spent all of his injury enforced time off in the gym. And watching him against the Tahs he ran straight over blokes a couple of times. He's a stocky unit.

MiketheSnow

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Canes4life" data-cid="585928" data-time="1465459701">
<div>
Id say the All Blacks will play a fairly simple, high paced game plan with the outlook of running the Welsh off the park with guys like Ardie and Beauden coming off the bench. They will probably add the flashy stuff as the series moves to the second and third game when combinations start jelling.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
With the exception of Bradley Davies, Gatland has selected his most mobile and athletic 8.
 
And the backs are not hurting in the speed department.
 
Where it will be won or lost is speed of thought. Unfortunately Wales will be still in the blocks whilst NZ are chesting the tape.

NTA

ABs by 35

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="585762" data-time="1465422204">
<div>
I know we have an embarrassment of riches with talent, but we have to give Hansen and the coaching team big props here. We've lost 4 - 5 all time greats from the last time we played, and yet the naming of the team is basically as expected. That's insane. The way they have built depth in terms of players with test experience, while making sure we keep winning everything in sight shows some pretty awesome management - it's not something previous AB coaches have done well at all. He has to go down as our greatest ever coach IMO.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Its more that they haven't fallen into the trp created by the embaressment of riches. Coaching the ABs there is so much talent & it puts its hand up so often you could pick & swap like crazy - Mains did this, Hart too especially 1998-9.
 
The genuis of the last 10 years is they've picked a guy, then stuck with him even if the flavor of the month of the Fern or in the press changes 15 times. Only bringing new guys in here & there as injury cover. You could look at Ardie who they brought in 2 years ago to train. They have well & truly laid out there selection there - McCaw, when McCaw goes its Cane (who they make captain in the WC pool game). Todd is the like for like with Cane & Ardie is the long term backup & will be eased in. Thats been their genuis, doing that for every position.
 
I was talking to a pom mate re the centres the other day & he was asking how we'd cope post Nonu-Smith & I said "no problem, Crotty-Fekitoa, with SBW slotting in later & Ngatai being developed having been blooded last year."
 
In contrast over the 5 years or so NZ really only used Crotty, Fekitoa & SBW to cover Nonu & Smith, England used Twelvetrees, Eastmond, Tuilagi, Burrell, Joseph, Burgess, Farrell, Barritt, Hape, Turner-Hall, Tomkins, Slade. And worse there's no consistent gamplan those guys played to. Sometimes the have to big smashers, sometimes a passer & a smasher, sometimes 2 quick guys etc...
 
Its often harder being a selector when you have depth as the fans will climb into every new young guy - look on here how many had selected Ardie ahead of Cane, or how during the WC guys like Sean Fitzpatrick were droping Savea for Nahalo. Or last season how many called the end for Dagg because Dmac & NMS can play there.

Catogrande

Yeah, continuity is key, but then continuity is easier when you have guys performing well and staying injury free. Hansen and co have faced different selection problems to most other international coaches, nicer problems to have for sure but sometimes not so easy to solve. I guess what I'm saying is that despite the level of talent available and the systems in place to promote the national team's interests, they have still done a bloody good job and handled their embarrassment of riches very well.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="585782" data-time="1465428010">Sigh. Way too many people take Internet forums way too seriously. 
My off-the-cuff post was tongue-in-cheek. 
If you're offended, seek therapy. 
And lighten up.</blockquote>
 
Haha, perhaps you need to lighten up. No one is offended so perhaps take your therapy comment back to planet rugby.

scribe

So Read or Smith to lead the haka as confirmed by Cruden. Smith should do it; Read has enough on his plate.

Billy Tell

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="585964" data-time="1465472489">
<div>
Haha, perhaps you need to lighten up. No one is offended so perhaps take your therapy comment back to planet rugby.
</div>
</blockquote>
??
 
I never ever post on planet rugby.
 
And never will.

Smudge

It'll be 28 years to the day since the second test between these two sides in 1988.
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1879'>http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1879</a>
 
We just tried naming the two teams from those tests in the office today. ABs were a breeze - Wales, I think we managed five . . . 
 
[spoiler]

				ALL BLACKS:
		
		
			<img height="1" src="http://stats.allblacks.com/images/blank.gif" width="5" alt="blank.gif">
		
			
				WALES:
		
	
			<p style="font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;">1.&nbsp;<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=562'>S. C. McDowall</a><br>
			2.&nbsp;<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=278'>S. B. T. Fitzpatrick</a><br>
			3.&nbsp;<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=504'>R. W. Loe</a><br>
			4.&nbsp;<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=703'>M. J. Pierce</a><br>
			5.&nbsp;<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=943'>G. W. Whetton</a><br>
			6.&nbsp;<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=942'>A. J. Whetton</a><br>
			7.&nbsp;<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=443'>M. N. Jones</a><br>
			8.&nbsp;<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=788'>W. T. Shelford (C)</a><br>
			9.&nbsp;<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=217'>I. B. Deans</a><br>
			10.&nbsp;<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=286'>G. J. Fox</a><br>
			11.&nbsp;<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=988'>T. J. Wright</a><br>
			12.&nbsp;<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=878'>W. T. Taylor</a><br>
			13.&nbsp;<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=830'>J. T. Stanley</a><br>
			14.&nbsp;<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=467'>J. J. Kirwan</a><br>
			15.&nbsp;<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=299'>J. A. Gallagher</a></p>
			
				RESERVES
			<p style="font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;"><br><br><br><br><br><br>
			&nbsp;</p>
		
		
			<img height="1" src="http://stats.allblacks.com/images/blank.gif" width="5" alt="blank.gif">
		
			<p style="font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;">1. S. T. Jones&nbsp;<br>
			2. I. J. Watkins&nbsp;<br>
			3. D. Young&nbsp;<br>
			4. K. M. Moseley&nbsp;<br>
			5. P. S. May&nbsp;<br>
			6. R. Phillips&nbsp;(Jones)<br>
			7. D. Bryant&nbsp;<br>
			8. W. P. Moriarty&nbsp;<br>
			9. J. Griffiths&nbsp;<br>
			10. J. Davies (C)&nbsp;<br>
			11. M. R. Hall&nbsp;(Mason)<br>
			12. N. Davies&nbsp;<br>
			13. J. A. Devereux&nbsp;<br>
			14. I. C. Evans&nbsp;<br>
			15. M. C. Ring&nbsp;</p>
			
				RESERVES
			<p style="font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;">16. M. A. Jones&nbsp;<br>
			17. J. Mason&nbsp;</p>
		
	<p>[/spoiler]</p>

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Smudge" data-cid="586021" data-time="1465508716">
<div>
It'll be 28 years to the day since the second test between these two sides in 1988.
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1879'>http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1879</a>
 
We just tried naming the two teams from those tests in the office today. ABs were a breeze - Wales, I think we managed five . . . 
 
[spoiler]
ALL BLACKS: <img height="1" src="http://stats.allblacks.com/images/blank.gif" width="5" alt="blank.gif"> WALES:
1. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=562'>S. C. McDowall</a> 
2. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=278'>S. B. T. Fitzpatrick</a> 
3. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=504'>R. W. Loe</a> 
4. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=703'>M. J. Pierce</a> 
5. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=943'>G. W. Whetton</a> 
6. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=942'>A. J. Whetton</a> 
7. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=443'>M. N. Jones</a> 
8. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=788'>W. T. Shelford (C)</a> 
9. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=217'>I. B. Deans</a> 
10. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=286'>G. J. Fox</a> 
11. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=988'>T. J. Wright</a> 
12. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=878'>W. T. Taylor</a> 
13. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=830'>J. T. Stanley</a> 
14. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=467'>J. J. Kirwan</a> 
15. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=299'>J. A. Gallagher</a>
RESERVES
 

<img height="1" src="http://stats.allblacks.com/images/blank.gif" width="5" alt="blank.gif">1. S. T. Jones 
2. I. J. Watkins 
3. D. Young 
4. K. M. Moseley 
5. P. S. May 
6. R. Phillips (Jones) 
7. D. Bryant 
8. W. P. Moriarty 
9. J. Griffiths 
10. J. Davies (C) 
11. M. R. Hall (Mason) 
12. N. Davies 
13. J. A. Devereux 
14. I. C. Evans 
15. M. C. Ring 
RESERVES
16. M. A. Jones 
17. J. Mason 
[/spoiler]
</div>
</blockquote>
Just say Jones, Evans and Davies and you'll pretty much nail the rest I would have thought.

broughie

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="585764" data-time="1465422376">Franks passing is much improved. His hands are a lot quicker and he is now used as one of our 'pop' passers with the forward interplay.</blockquote>
 
What I've have seen of Frank's he should never be in a position to pass. Get out of the way son. You're a scrummager, lifter, tackler and clear out rucks. That your job description.

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Provincial Stalwart" data-cid="585809" data-time="1465433831">
<div>
I think that is the most likely explanation. Taylor has it all over Harris based on the last 18 months, but Harris has obviously been injured for most of that time and is only a couple of starts for the Chiefs into his comeback. Harris needs to be integrated back into the team quickly with a view to he and Taylor slugging it out for the bench hooker spot for TRC and beyond. Had Harris not been injured, we would never have seen as much of Taylor or Hika Elliott last tear, and we wouldn't have seen James Parsons.
 
Regardless of those machinations, we are in a good place at hooker, much more so than in 2012 when we had two aging hookers and no-one else at all (plus Mealamu had to be carefully managed through the 4 season cycle to RWC). Coles debuted on the 2012 EOYT and didn't come of age in test matches until the England series in June 2014 (I recall Bismarck du Plessis owned Coles in the test at Eden Park in 2013 prior to being sent off). 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I guess all will be revealed over the next couple of weeks.
 
Definitely not short of hookers when Elliott can just be ignored - though I guess the real test will be seeing what Harris brings to the party.
 
Right now, I think the only position we are light on options for is tighthead prop and I think I'm probably under-rating Charlie's capacity to start against tough opposition and Nepo Laulala's return would significantly improve things.
 
Mind you - if Wales do the unthinkable and beat us tomorrow, there will be some humbling reassessments of our smugness. It's interesting that pretty much everyone (including me) is expecting us to just absorb our player losses without missing a beat.
 
Not there for Saturday XV: Woodcock, Taylor, Laulala, Whitelock, Franklin, Messam, McCaw, Vito, TKB, Carter, SBW (11), Nonu, Smith, NMS, Dagg would give our starting XV headaches - especially the backs.

taniwharugby

I don't expect it to be smooth sailing, IIRC the majority of test losses the ABs have had over recent years have usually been when one of Richie or Conrad were not playing, maybe co-incidence, but I doubt it.
 
While I don't think we will lose this test, there will no doubt be plenty of teeth gnashing and angst from a number of fans about Hansen being a muppet and shoulda picked this person or that person when we don't destroy them ;)

RoninWC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="586048" data-time="1465517526">
<div>
I guess all will be revealed over the next couple of weeks.
 
Definitely not short of hookers when Elliott can just be ignored - though I guess the real test will be seeing what Harris brings to the party.
 
Right now, I think the only position we are light on options for is tighthead prop and I think I'm probably under-rating Charlie's capacity to start against tough opposition and Nepo Laulala's return would significantly improve things.
 
Mind you - if Wales do the unthinkable and beat us tomorrow, there will be some humbling reassessments of our smugness. It's interesting that pretty much everyone (including me) is expecting us to just absorb our player losses without missing a beat.
 
Not there for Saturday XV: Woodcock, Taylor, <strike>Laulala</strike> Mealamu, Whitelock, Franklin, Messam, McCaw, Vito, TKB, Carter, SBW (11), Nonu, Smith, NMS, Dagg would give our starting XV headaches - especially the backs.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Just had to correct one error for you... :hi:

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="RoninWC" data-cid="586065" data-time="1465521013">
<div>
Just had to correct one error for you... :hi:
</div>
</blockquote>
Hmm, is Kev that good a tighthead prop?

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Wales