All Blacks vs Wales

Canes4life

Even mentioning Luke Whitelock makes me cringe. He plays one good game against the Highlanders and all of a sudden he warrants selection. Please!! Guys like Dixon, Squire, Blade Thomson and Steven Luatua are consisitantly better than him. I am quietly happy the Highlanders have Whitelock starting ahead of Squire this week because the back of the scrum has rapidly gone from a point of strength to a point of weakness IMO.

Cantab79

I can't believe people are seriously suggesting that Tu'ungafasi might be an option given his relative lack of ability at scrum time. He might look like Tarzan but he scrums like Jane. He may develop into a world class prop and become a long term All Black, but he's nowhere near the required standard at this stage. In saying that, I can't see any reason why he couldn't be considered as a project player, just to bring him into the camp, introduce him to the AB environment and culture and get to know him a little bit better.
 
As for Luke Whitelock, whilst I think he's behind a few players at both blindside flanker and no.8, the fact he can play both positions coupled with his rapid improvement curve and physical traits mean that he is in with a shot for a wider squad place.

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pukunui" data-cid="582678" data-time="1464172512">
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Tu'ungafasi can't even start consistently for the blues. Is he really AB standard? I realise he has been in training camps etc. 
Am i the only one who thinks luke whitelock should be nowhere near an AB jersey?
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I haven't seen anything from Ofa that makes me think he is close to AB standard. The big problem is that pickings at THP are extremely thin after Owen Franks and Faumuina. I'm not sure who else can be seriously considered other than Toomaga-Allen or Ofa?
 
Pretty sure none of Alaalatoa,Yamashita, Geldenhuys or Halanukonuka are available to the ABs. I think Hohneck is off overseas?
 
NZRU might have to look at clamping down on using AB ineligible THPs in Super rugby.
 
You're not alone on Lucky Luke. I didn't even want him at the Crusaders!
 
He has, admittedly played a couple of good games in recent times.

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Canes4life" data-cid="582681" data-time="1464173287">
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Surely Goodes is the 6th best prop in NZ. He has not only been killing it this year for the Canes but he was also dominant last year aswell. I suppose being confined to loose-head doesn't work in his favour due to Moody and Crockett being the incumbents but he shits all over Tu'ungafasi in terms of work rate and scrummaging. 
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Goodes must be in the picture as the third loosehead prop. But at last call, we know he is behind Paulasi Manu, because Manu went to the RWC. Am I right in thinking that Kane Hames has been called into AB training camps and Goodes hasn't? And as above, Brendon Edmonds might also be in the frame if fit. Even Tim Perry is a good loosehead, though not yet experienced enough to be in the frame.
 
Hames, when fit, is a very destructive scrummager - he looks like someone who would thrive at test level. I'm not sure I've seen the same destruction from Goodes. But, if they actually want someone to play significant time in this series against Wales, then they'll likely go with Goodes, because the Chiefs aren't yet picking Hames to start for them.

Bones

Fish are jumping today! Is this also where I mention Ardie won't be selected as an open side but will make the squad as a 12/13?

Canes4life

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="582686" data-time="1464175149">
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Goodes must be in the picture as the third loosehead prop. But at last call, we know he is behind Paulasi Manu, because Manu went to the RWC. Am I right in thinking that Kane Hames has been called into AB training camps and Goodes hasn't? And as above, Brendon Edmonds might also be in the frame if fit. Even Tim Perry is a good loosehead, though not yet experienced enough to be in the frame.
 
Hames, when fit, is a very destructive scrummager - he looks like someone who would thrive at test level. I'm not sure I've seen the same destruction from Goodes. But, if they actually want someone to play significant time in this series against Wales, then they'll likely go with Goodes, because the Chiefs aren't yet picking Hames to start for them. 
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Ive got a source close to Goodes and apparently the All Blacks coaches had a word with him about putting on a bit of beef in the off-season of this year. He has since done that going from 112kg last year to 116kg this year and it is doing wonders for him. So maybe he is higher up the pecking order now. Who knows. Hopefully his name will be read out on Sunday instead of Ofa.

pukunui

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="582689" data-time="1464175372">
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Fish are jumping today! Is this also where I mention Ardie won't be selected as an open side but will make the squad as a 12/13?
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I hope that's what it is. You never can tell sometimes though.

sparky

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Canes4life" data-cid="582693" data-time="1464177727">
Ive got a source close to Goodes and apparently the All Blacks coaches had a word with him about putting on a bit of beef in the off-season of this year. He has since done that going from 112kg last year to 116kg this year and it is doing wonders for him. So maybe he is higher up the pecking order now. Who knows. Hopefully his name will be read out on Sunday instead of Ofa.</blockquote> 
Is that a source or a sauce?

Bones

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pukunui" data-cid="582696" data-time="1464181288">I hope that's what it is. You never can tell sometimes though.</blockquote>
To be honest, I actually wouldn't be surprised if Whitelock was selected. It most likely wouldn't be my pick but he's maturing as a player and has been there before. I don't think there's a heck of a lot between Thompson/Dixon/Barrett/Whitelock/Luatua. Myself I'd probably plump for Seu or Fatialofa if he can play blindside but I'd say Luatua is the frontrunner.

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Canes4life" data-cid="582682" data-time="1464173571">
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Even mentioning Luke Whitelock makes me cringe. He plays one good game against the Highlanders and all of a sudden he warrants selection. Please!! Guys like Dixon, Squire, Blade Thomson and Steven Luatua are consisitantly better than him. I am quietly happy the Highlanders have Whitelock starting ahead of Squire this week because the back of the scrum has rapidly gone from a point of strength to a point of weakness IMO.
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The reason I think they may look at Whitelock again sometime this year is that they identified him some time ago and he is finally (albeit one excellent performance) showing why.
I'm no fan of his based on what I have seen but I do accept the fact that these selectors identify plays based on specific skillsets and micro skills. Joe Moody is a good example. He looked to have jumped the queue when first selected but from things I have read, that was based on specific strength training numbers they had access to and the instinctive style they saw. Since then it has been a case of refining skill as they not only saw where the improvements were needed but how he had the ability to learn them as well. Some players don't seem to be able to improve but these wise men seem to be able to pick those that can. That is why they back themselves over players like Coles (who was nowhere near the world class player he is now) but shy away from guys like Elliott (who can do the job but isn't world class and doesn't have much improvement left in him).
Back to topic, I just have a feeling that if Whitelock puts in another big game against Vito, Shields and Savea (a good test) they will think that their original identification was good and it has finally come back to benefit them.
I don't expect to see him in a match 23, but he fits the bill of one of the guys already capped that they may want back in the fold for another look if the opportunity arises.

Frye

Yeah I think Dixon and Luatua are ahead of the rest for me. 
Luke Whitelock, Squires, Taufua and Blade Thompson tucked in a group behind. 
Taleni Seu is promising but raw. 
Akira Ioane is probably in the second group too but obviously not in the discussion right now.

Bovidae

It is still possible that some fringe players could play themselves in or out of the squad based on their performance this weekend. We have 2 AB trials for Hansen and co to finalise their selections.

SammyC

I also watched the breakdown, I don't think Luatua was mentioned once as an option.
 
Personally I'd have him as the second best 8 in the country (also plays the same wide running role that Read plays)
 
 
I've never seen Whitelock put in a dominant performance like last week, ever. Not even in club rugby, contrast that with Nasi Manu who looked like Jonah Lomu whenever he came back to play for Sydenham.
 
If he does it again this week, perhaps he's an option. But at this stage I'd be pretty annoyed if they picked him based on one game.

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="582722" data-time="1464210781">
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I also watched the breakdown, I don't think Luatua was mentioned once as an option.
 
Personally I'd have him as the second best 8 in the country (also plays the same wide running role that Read plays)
 
 
I've never seen Whitelock put in a dominant performance like last week, ever. Not even in club rugby, contrast that with Nasi Manu who looked like Jonah Lomu whenever he came back to play for Sydenham.
 
If he does it again this week, perhaps he's an option. But at this stage I'd be pretty annoyed if they picked him based on one game.
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You seem to miss the point that the ABs have not been selected solely on form for a long time now. Form is only one factor in selection. Personal attributes, ability to play a certain type of game, ability to learn and absorb, particular skillsets, potential prospects and squad needs (such as whether a like for like or change up type backup is required) all come into it.
These attempts by fans such as us tend to be based almost solely on who we see playing well and there are many factors that we are in the dark about.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="582770" data-time="1464219265">
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You seem to miss the point that the ABs have not been selected solely on form for a long time now. Form is only one factor in selection. Personal attributes, ability to play a certain type of game, ability to learn and absorb, particular skillsets, potential prospects and squad needs (such as whether a like for like or change up type backup is required) all come into it.
These attempts by fans such as us tend to be based almost solely on who we see playing well and there are many factors that we are in the dark about.
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I haven't missed the point, I'm well aware theres a chance they will take Whitelock
 
However..... in my opinion I don't think Whitelock has the ability to play the style of game the ABs want from their number 8. Just like Parsons is too slow for the hooker role.
 
 
He's obviously got the right personal attributes. All the Whitelocks probably do.

Nepia

At first I thought that Crucial was smoking something suggesting Whitelock on the basis of one good game, but then I remembered he was first picked off no good games. So anything is possible.
 
Although, from the moment Coles was picked as an AB he just went from strength to strength, and Whitelock kind of went the opposite.

Frank

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="582685" data-time="1464174425">
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I haven't seen anything from Ofa that makes me think he is close to AB standard. The big problem is that pickings at THP are extremely thin after Owen Franks and Faumuina. I'm not sure who else can be seriously considered other than Toomaga-Allen or Ofa?
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If Franks goes down, the best bet might be to go Rennie golden-oldies style??? (and be bloody angry about it)

Provincial Stalwart

No, Luatua wasn't mentioned in The Breakdown discussion - it was all Dixon, Taufua and Squire. Even Luatua's former coach SJK did not mention him. However, the graphic showing Goldie's team featured Luatua's name at the expense of Squire (and Luke Whitelock in if Kaino injured as Chris B mentioned).
 
I think Luatua is probably subjected by the ABs panel to a higher selection threshold than the other three mentioned above (plus any other uncapped player). Hansen et al have worked with him in 2013 and 2014 and have obviously identified his weakness(es) at test level during the time he was with them. Hansen et al have not worked with Dixon, Taufua, Squire at all, or to the same extent (Squire got a training camp in 2014 I think, and played those 40 min games vs Harbour and Northland?). These players may get into the squad (at Luatua's expense) so that the selectors can try them out and see whether the strengths shown and weaknesses exposed at SR level can be developed / ironed out. They're auditioning loose forwards for the test bench which is the way they tend to intoduce newbies in this era.
 
Hansen et al to my knowledge have not publicised Luatua's weaknesses other than fitness - but we know their nature is to give such players a list of things to work on. In the end, it may simply have been that the return of Kaino, and the gradual improvement in Vito (haivng been told to get more physical in 2013 and 2014) squeezed out Luatua by 2014 (Messam was a constant in 2013 and 2014). Or they may have identified that 8 is the position best suited to Luatua's skills and the ABs' needs.
 
In any case, we have seen numerous examples of players who were tried in the ABs, dropped, toiled away in the NPC level and come back to be excellent or very good test players. Kaino is a perfect example in that position, plus Messam and Vito.

mariner4life

I think Luatua deserves to be picked. However i am not sure i would be surprised if he missed out. I would however, be surprised if Taufua got called up.
 
Liam Squire is a player i have a lot of time for. He's quick, strong, runs good lines, and has a mean streak in him. I think he would be an asset if the national coaches could sand a few rough edges off him.

Crucial

Squire needs to get rid of that ugly mullet if he wants to wear black.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Wales