All Blacks vs Wales
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="586825" data-time="1465676410">
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<p> Seriously? Based on what?</p>
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<p>Good question. I think he has enougth experience in NZ and the southern hemishpere to understand that if you play pattern against the ABs and try and grind a win it just won't work. He has managed to get his players on board with playing an expansive brand of opportunistic rugby, built around running turnover ball back. The support in general last night was executed really well for most of the game, but faded towards the end.</p>
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<p>I'm not sure all coaches understand this, paritcularly from the NH. It is easier in some ways to play grinding spoiling rugby and lose by less, than chance a blowout. Expansive footy can backfire against a good side, but if you are prepared to go in to win, then it's a chance. The Argentinians have evolved their rugby style as well to be more aggressive in attack and counterattack. </p>
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<p>Do you rate Gatland, or is the jury still out?</p> -
The I expect Wayne Smith to be very busy this week, I think Naholo was drifting in a lot, Crotty-Fekitoa need time to build a combo, but geez they were pretty anonymous. <br><br>
For once I agree with rotated
the game plan revolves around getting the ball to Naholo, which is all well and good, but good to get the other basics right. <br><br>
Plenty of kinks to iron out, but always are after the first test -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="586526" data-time="1465638030"><p>
Will try and sober up before commenting further ... but Barnsry still can't work out what constitutes a forward pass. <br><br><br>
Dickhead. ..</p></blockquote>
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Just on this , that was an awful call by Barnes for TJs try. Just wrong.<br><br>
But i recall him missing what I thought was a clear forward pass in the build up to one of the Taffs tries.<br><br>
Also thought Coles was on side for that second penalty that Biggar kicked. Yes he was in front of Smith when he knocked on, but then as he had retreated a couple of steps and Smith had advanced I thought he was put on. Mind you is he subject to being inside the 10m ?? Would have been tough to pick up on the field though.<br><br>
I wasn't greatly upset by Barnesy's reffing. Usual grumbles and I expect Welsh peeps woul have some too, but he is capable of the most horrendous errors. -
so people are getting off the bus now,,,
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on Barnes well at least he did something incredible as a ref and maybe a first in international rugby - he made Ayoub look good!
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nzzp" data-cid="586833" data-time="1465677453">
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<p>Good question. I think he has enougth experience in NZ and the southern hemishpere to understand that if you play pattern against the ABs and try and grind a win it just won't work. He has managed to get his players on board with playing an expansive brand of opportunistic rugby, built around running turnover ball back. The support in general last night was executed really well for most of the game, but faded towards the end.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'm not sure all coaches understand this, paritcularly from the NH. It is easier in some ways to play grinding spoiling rugby and lose by less, than chance a blowout. Expansive footy can backfire against a good side, but if you are prepared to go in to win, then it's a chance. The Argentinians have evolved their rugby style as well to be more aggressive in attack and counterattack. </p>
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<p>Do you rate Gatland, or is the jury still out?</p>
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<p>Ach. Maybe. I saw a lot more from Wales in this match than I'd seen for a long while. Under Gatland they'd been successful up here but one dimensional. Historilcally for Ireland and Wasps he got them fitter, more believing and had a good blitz defence. This worked well for a while then got found out. With Wales, he's been blessed with some very good players who not only suit his system but have bought into it. But sooo limited.</p>
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<p>Under Woodward, England won only one Grand Slam but beat all the SH teams home and away. Gatland's Wales have won two GS but have done dick all else. Gatland's Wales play grinding rugby but have the players to be much more expansive. So no, I'm not sure I do rate him per the longer term.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="586840" data-time="1465678174">
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<p>Gatland's Wales play grinding rugby but have the players to be much more expansive. So no, I'm not sure I do rate him per the longer term.</p>
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<p>They sure as hell weren't grinding last night! And I guess that's kind of my point - I think Gats understands what he needs to do to win against different opposition. He has got his boys playing differnetly down here to a 1D play up north.</p>
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<p>We were end on last night, and the support for the Welsh ball carrier after a break was sensational. We were bloody lucky to kill off a few attacks (the one where A Smith got up to intercept a looped pass stood out - he's too short to do that!). The Taffs just poured through and kept their width, great to watch if you weren't an AB supporter losing the game.</p> -
Savea rightly subbed early, he was lazy as fuck on cover defense and missed 3 one on one tackles on north. Wonder if we'll see him again this series.<br><br>
Midfield was a bit toothless, Hansen seemed to suggest in his interview after the game that he'll stick with them though. They deserve another chance I think.<br><br>
Thought Romano was ok, no worse than Retallick, who definately didn't have his best game for the abs. But fuck, Patrick tuipoloto was a beast when he came on, a few big hits in defense, and making serious ground running with the ball. And an awesome lineout steal too.<br><br>
And Ardie was awesome. Still think he'll overtake cane in the next couple of years (not immediately, so calm down Chiefs mafia
). Global superstar in the making -
<p>Yeah mate. Today's (last night's) game was a good advert for Welsh rugby, albeit a heavy loss on the scoreboard. However before I go overboard on Gatland's ability to coach more than one game plan I'd have to see this backed up by more than one game and even then to ignore the lack of flexibility throughout his tenure with Wales, Ireland, Wasps, Lions. And yeah, his Lions won the series but if Beale had longer studs on it would have been 2-1 Aussie.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="586819" data-time="1465675472"><p>Fuck me boys. You've just won a full on test match and won it well. Now you want to bite chunks of each other. Lucky you didn't lose otherwise the blood would be flowing.<br> <br>You'e come of a long international off season, having lost a few of the absolute greats of the modern game, you'e beaten a good Welsh side. Well. <br> <br>Enjoy it and let provincial bias wait until tomorrow.<br> <br>Then bring it on. :idiot2:</p></blockquote><br>Welcome to NZ rugby, where winning is never enough
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<p>Chiefs supporters eh...</p>
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<p>I thought Cane was solid. We were a few handling errors and tackles away from a tremendous performance, which I think is to be expected in the first match in 6 months and with a significant amount of changes in the side. I'm pretty happy with where we are right now, and I think this was Wales' best chance to grab a result.</p>
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<p>Wayne Barnes...sigh. The way he handled the pass was a shocker but I've always been more worried about the way he handles the breakdown and off side line than the occasional one off error (although with a screen to look at, it makes it unforgivable). It's a free for all at ruck time, but he often finds a penalty against us when we respond in kind. And were Wales on side at any ruck? Some of our little kicks were a good way to counter this.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nostrildamus" data-cid="586814" data-time="1465674385">
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<p>>sparky is a whiney baby<br><br>
unfair imo: sparky can have a different preference for #7<br>
I was just surprised there were no Todd fanbois for once!<br><br>
nb I'd also like to see if Moala or Ngatai would go ok in the midfield- Fekitoa has the attributes but not the assurance over how many tests now? 14?</p>
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<p>It's one thing to have a preference, it's another to whine about people being mean when they disagree.</p>
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<p>Anyways, I agree with the sentiment that (J) Savea sucks. I reckon it started when Hansen said he's better than Jonah a couple years ago.</p> -
<p>I'm okay with that performance. It wasn't great but we had enough to pull away from Wales. Wales had a great game plan. Biggar and Webb both kicked very well. They targeted Savea and Naholo and most of the kicks were competitive. Faletau, North and Liam Williams were all great. I feel like that was probably Wales at their best. They will have to give a lot more if they are going to win a test.</p>
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<p>Cane and Read were the pick of the forwards. Cane played well enough I thought. He didn't get the turnovers but then again nor did Warburton. Cane was getting to the breakdowns and making tackles. I was surprised to see Savea come on for him. I thought Savea came on and gave a fantastic bench performance but he didn't look like winning turnovers either. I don't know what was going on with Retallick. He seemed to get through a decent amount of work but has no idea when to pass and missed a big tackle on Liam Williams.</p>
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<p>Julian Savea was bloody terrible. He didn't look threatening on attack at all and was repeatedly stood up on defence. Yeah, Naholo looked terrible under the high ball but he didn't get stood up like Savea and he looked bloody dangerous every time he touched the ball. The Welsh gave him way too much space - I don't think they will do that next week. J. Savea at his best is fantastic but even if he becomes one of the best attacking wingers in the world again, his frailties probably would leave him behind Naholo. I wouldn't pick Savea next week. Dagg or Barrett should go to fullback.</p>
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<p>I don't know what to make of the centres. Fekitoa didn't take his opportunity and Crotty was solid without being spectacular. I think they both deserve another chance in the series but Ngatai should probably play when he is fit.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="586852" data-time="1465680117"><p>
It's one thing to have a preference, it's another to whine about people being mean when they disagree.<br><br>
Anyways, I agree with the sentiment that (J) Savea sucks. I reckon it started when Hansen said he's better than Jonah a couple years ago.</p></blockquote>
Just to set the record straight. What I was objecting to was being called a prick....<br><br>
I welcome disagreement and different opinions. Nothing is more boring than unnecessary consensus. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="sparky" data-cid="586856" data-time="1465680477">
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<p>Just to set the record straight. What I was objecting to was being called a prick....<br><br>
I welcome disagreement and different opinions.</p>
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<p>It gets a bit feral when you upset a Chiefs supporter</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="586852" data-time="1465680117">
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<p>It's one thing to have a preference, it's another to whine about people being mean when they disagree.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anyways, I agree with the sentiment that (J) Savea sucks. I reckon it started when Hansen said he's better than Jonah a couple years ago.</p>
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<p>In fairness to Hanson when he said it , he was bloody awesome at that point in time , </p>
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<p>More complete than Jonah in most areas of the game ,</p>
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<p>but its looking like a downhill spiral now </p> -
Cane is a favourite son for Chiefs fans. Some of them can't tolerate any criticism of him.<br><br>
It's a bit like the reaction you got from a few Canterbury folks a few years ago when you expressed doubt about Reuban Thorne being the greatest captain ever.
