All Blacks 2024
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2024:
I am trying to work out what's gone so wrong with our backline.
These are my guesses.
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Aging players are kept in the squad when once upon a time two bad performances would have led to the selectors hitting the ejector seat button.
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Some of our backs ain't fast enough.
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Our backs ain't spending enough time together on the training paddock working on combinations, attacking angles and the timing of passes.
I'd welcome other suggestions.
No 3 - I look at skill sets of players. Reiko just doesn’t execute consistently - his catch and pass % are too low. My perception is that it’s mostly around him that it breaks down. Tough position in today’s game with the rush D.
If you add BB kicking the ball away, most of our issues are in the backs.
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@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
When is there going to be an announcement on Richie Mounga, the headlines keep coming up and it is hidden by a paywall?
I saw something earlier - will see if I can dig it out. NZR apparently hoping he'll be back May next year to play for the ABs.
I am disappointed. Fuck it, I'm massively underwhelmed. If he's the answer to our Test malaise I'll eat my hat
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here it is
Inside Rugby: How the All Blacks are hoping to bring back Richie Mo'unga
OPINION: New Zealand Rugby's bid to bring Mo'unga home faces challenges.
and the paywall free version
https://archive.ph/TjEq3 -
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks 2024:
(sauce: completely random convo with Razor in a lift somewhere in Paris back in my I was overseas days still remember how filthy he was)
That was 20 years ago
I remember you speaking to the rest of the group just after that.. you were surprised that he was so willing to shit on Mitchell to a random kiwi
Wasn't he pissed at Deans too?
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At least Paul clearly recognises that a likely outcome of Mo'unga coming back is Dmac going, and given the relationship between Toshiba and the Chiefs, Dmac would be their ideal replacement.
All in all, some interesting ideas in that article, but the glaring one to me, is that the sabbatical system was created for Carter.
Mo'unga is a Temu version, and the fact that NZR is bending over now to do this silly shit speaks to the clown show it has become.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024:
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks 2024:
(sauce: completely random convo with Razor in a lift somewhere in Paris back in my I was overseas days still remember how filthy he was)
That was 20 years ago
I remember you speaking to the rest of the group just after that.. you were surprised that he was so willing to shit on Mitchell to a random kiwi
Wasn't he pissed at Deans too?
dunno my memory ain't that good! just remember him raging about mitch.
had a 30 year uni reunion on the weekend - just a bunch of people looking at each other say yeh can kinda remember you but not really... so not just my memory that's gettin hazy!
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I’d back Razor to be across these issues and to be able to fix them.
The only thing stopping Razor I think is himself. Unlike Foster, he provably has the ability as a head coach, and success has followed him at all levels.
The key issue next year will be selection, because despite everything, I’d argue we outplayed everyone in every test (from a tactical standpoint) except for maybe the Boks, but even then it is splitting hairs.
The forwards I think is more about evolution than revolution.
We have got 6 good props, 2 very good hookers + a good young prospect in Bell and hopefully a returning Samasoni, so no issues in the front row.
Six locks have been in the squad this year, IMO, have to get Holland in the 23, but this is evolution rather than revolution.
Loose forwards, in Sititi, Savea, Lakai and Papalii, we have the makings of a great loose forward trio. I think long-term, we probably need a hulking blindside, but that could be Haig and Finau who have already been in the squad, with Sititi/Savea at 8.
Backline might be more about revolution though.
Halfback, we have Roigard, then open season. I hope they haven’t written off Fakatava, because he is the closest in play-style to Roigard, and in the absence of a world beating first five, playing off 9 is important. Ratima has some work to do, but should be retained… feel like Hotham is TJ mark two.
First Five, may need to tweak the game plan to factor that neither BB or DMac are great playmakers. Boks have played great rugby with Pollard at 10, so food for thought as to whether you need a running first five. Hard to see how Jacomb makes inroads sitting behind DMac, Plummer is overseas, the Canes and Crusaders 10s don’t seem to be there. Not going to pretend like I’m not a bit biased, but it Millar has a solid season, when the music stops he might be the last one standing.
Midfield, J Barrett is by far and away our best 12. No coincidence we played our worst rugby this year when he was off the field. ALB is not a 12, so need to find good backup. Ioane had a good year, but next year we really need to test if Proctor can be even better - which we won’t know until we try. Havili and ALB should be swept out… Higgins, Tupaea and McLeod these ones to watch as squadies I think.
Outside Backs, need revolution here. Clarke had a good year, Jordan had a good year and Tele’a ended the year well, but feel like the rest is open season. To help control test matches, the second fullback model I think is needed. Jordan back to the wing, as he is always going to be the best fullback on the wing (Like B Smith) and let’s look at a couple of fullbacks. Love the obvious one already in the environment.
Room for some bolters, let’s see what Super Rugby brings, and I think we can really judge where this team is heading at the end of next year.
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@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks 2024:
dunno my memory ain't that good! just remember him raging about mitch.
I might be remembering wrong.. but I think he told Deans it was his last year in NZ and Deans thanked him for the heads up and said it wouldn't affect his AB chances
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
First Five, may need to tweak the game plan to factor that neither BB or DMac are great playmakers. Boks have played great rugby with Pollard at 10, so food for thought as to whether you need a running first five. Hard to see how Jacomb makes inroads sitting behind DMac, Plummer is overseas, the Canes and Crusaders 10s don’t seem to be there. Not going to pretend like I’m not a bit biased, but it Millar has a solid season, when the music stops he might be the last one standing.
Yeah. Millar is definitely the solution.
Do you watch any Chiefs games? Dmac is magic at putting others into space. Our poor attack systems don't take advantage of his capabilities.
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@gt12 i dont think youre wrong...but i also think RM is the first example of how carving up at super level doesnt directly translate to international
I'm also not sure Millar is the best example....but the idea of a more traditional 10, plug the corners when needed, distribute but also not afraid just to take it into contact (not shovel shit to avoid getting tackled) and have faith will just play of 9 the next phase....is attractive
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
First Five, may need to tweak the game plan to factor that neither BB or DMac are great playmakers. Boks have played great rugby with Pollard at 10, so food for thought as to whether you need a running first five. Hard to see how Jacomb makes inroads sitting behind DMac, Plummer is overseas, the Canes and Crusaders 10s don’t seem to be there. Not going to pretend like I’m not a bit biased, but it Millar has a solid season, when the music stops he might be the last one standing.
Yeah. Millar is definitely the solution.
Do you watch any Chiefs games? Dmac is magic at putting others into space. Our poor attack systems don't take advantage of his capabilities.
Against slack arse SR defence, where no one really uses a rush defence. Not saying that he can't replicate at international level, but we need to drop the entire flat attacking line bullshit (again, again and again) to find out - DMac should go to Ireland
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
let’s see what Super Rugby brings
Why? Doesn't make a blind bit of difference to selection to the ABs
that entire post could have been made 12 months ago
and yet here we are, still wheeling out the 2023 All Blacks
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2024:
I am trying to work out what's gone so wrong with our backline.
These are my guesses.
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Aging players are kept in the squad when once upon a time two bad performances would have led to the selectors hitting the ejector seat button.
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Some of our backs ain't fast enough.
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Our backs ain't spending enough time together on the training paddock working on combinations, attacking angles and the timing of passes.
I'd welcome other suggestions.
Our backline attack has completely stagnated since having BB at 10.
I may seem obsessed with this notion since it's all I've posted recently..but it's infuriating to see something eventuate that seemed so obvious from the outside.
Beauden has never looked good against the rush. He has a horrible passing game, he doesn't run flat to draw in defenders and free the outside backs. He telegraphs his passes and shovels it on, it's just trash. And our attack greatly suffers.
Amazing how we were consistently getting around rush defense with Dmac at 10 (someone with an actual passing game), and it's suddenly disappeared again with BB back.
I'm just in disbelief he is still getting picked to start at 10.
Honestly he must be the most charming person on the planet off the field to keep getting picked.
Yeah this is just so baffling. Beauden has never been a good 10 in the true sense of the role. I'm not trying to be overly critical of him there as I'm actually a massive fan. He has been outstanding for us in the past and despite what people say, he deserved to be world player of the year in his prime. But his prime was based around his explosive speed off the mark, exploiting half gaps, and his eye for an opportunity. He didn't win us games from 10 by controlling the match and setting his outsides away, he won us games by creating and scoring tries out of fucking nothing on a regular basis, blowing tight test matches wide open.
At this stage of his career, that explosive speed off the mark is no longer there, so he has now become an extremely limited player at 10. At fullback he is still good, as his eye for an opportunity is still there and he has enough pace to exploit chances he sees with the extra space, but at 10 he really doesn't offer anything at all.
Then when you look at the selections, the coaches absolutely made their bed with DMac, played him in every game and asked a huge amount of him. And he responded by growing into the role, and being central to basically ALL of our positive play in the backs. Then they inexplicably drop him for the last test against the Wallabies, and after that suddenly Beauden is the man again? Based off what exactly?
I think this all points to a head coach that is woefully out of his depth at test level.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
Then they inexplicably drop him for the last test against the Wallabies, and after that suddenly Beauden is the man again? Based off what exactly?
what makes this even worse is, the best performance by a 10 all tour was DMac in tough conditions v Ireland. And it didn't make a lick of difference, BB was back for the next two weeks, with absolutely predictable results.
DMac with all that first half ball and territory and set piece dominance v France? We are out of sight at half time.
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On the forwards, I think people are being far too generous. I made this comment in the Italy thread but it's better for here - our front row and hookers are great, our locks good though the captain has not been playing very well, and our loose forwards are an absolute shambles due to very poor selections and game plan. I'd be loathe to give them more than a C+ in the forwards based on that.
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you may be right but it feels a bit harsh.
The set piece has been really good, the scrum strong despite newbie front rowers, ad the lineout better than it has any real right to be.
Around the track they've been saved by Sititi I think, and then the running game of Patty T off the bench.They were well beaten by the French pack in the 2nd half a week ago.
My opinion is the use and timing of substitutions has really hurt us. Guys are playing far too many minutes, quality of those minutes be damned. I feel like any sub in the last 10 is a complete waste of a player unless the guy on the field is totally cooked (in which case you have fucked up by not making the switch 10 minutes earlier).
Razor obviously feels that some players need to be on the field no matter what, which is why guys like Taylor, Savea, Cane, ScoBa play big minutes. This totally flies in the face of what appears to be working elsewhere, where fresh forwards are given 30-35 minutes to make a real difference in the game. We stubbornly stick to old school thinking.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
First Five, may need to tweak the game plan to factor that neither BB or DMac are great playmakers. Boks have played great rugby with Pollard at 10, so food for thought as to whether you need a running first five. Hard to see how Jacomb makes inroads sitting behind DMac, Plummer is overseas, the Canes and Crusaders 10s don’t seem to be there. Not going to pretend like I’m not a bit biased, but it Millar has a solid season, when the music stops he might be the last one standing.
Yeah. Millar is definitely the solution.
Do you watch any Chiefs games? Dmac is magic at putting others into space. Our poor attack systems don't take advantage of his capabilities.
I’m meaning as a pure squad option, he might be the beneficiary as last man standing. What Millar could possibly provide though, is game management and elite punting, which is where both Barrett and DMac have struggled this year.
McKenzie is a moments player, and he might well be the best we have got, but we won’t win a World Cup with him at 10. He is too hit and miss to get away with in tournament play IMO. He has thrived in the impact roll as has Barrett. Neither really grasped that starting 10 role, McKenzie was dropped after flattering to deceive in SA and Bledisloe One. The idea that he solves our issues is the Sotutu argument all over again.
The guy who isn’t playing isn’t always a better solution, sometimes the issue is there is no solution, and to me it is abundantly clear that we don’t have a 10 capable of running a game on his own, so there are three options.
A) Wait for the next guy to come along/pray Mo’unga finds a new gear
Continue with the inconsistency Barrett and DMac provideC) Alter the gameplan to remove the burden from the 10. With Roigard at 9, and Barrett at 12 I think this is a legitimate option. France play a lot off Dupont with a limited 10 outside him, and the Boks have succeeded with a pack going well and Pollard running the basics. It is possible I think, that with everything run well around him, should he continue to take steps forward Millar, or a Cashmore or another first five in that mould could be a stop gap. With them begging Mo’unga back, and taking Jacomb with the NZ XV they clearly aren’t going to go this way though I don’t think.
