All Blacks 2024
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
I think what we’ve seen is what would happen if any of us had the chance to select and coach the ABs. We’ve got this idea in our head of a style of play and what we think will work, and then very quickly - how does the Mike Tyson quote go? - everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. Under Razor the ABs are trying to play a skills-based game to out manoeuvre their opposition. The interesting thing is, we’ve actually discovered some dimensions to our power game (Sititi, Aumua, Paddy to an extent… Ardie for about 3 mins every game). So, what he needs to do, is quickly sort out how to diversify the approach so we don’t just rely on out-highlights reeling the opposition. Don’t forget, we’ve been there or there abouts with the best teams in the world this year. Is it good enough yet? No. Is there the potential to grow consistently into the best team in the world? In the basis of some of the young players coming through, I would say yes. But Razor’s got some hard/brave calls to make in 2025.
I'm not sure about potential. France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.
They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.
They're winning games against us with young players coming through.
We have some real potential particularly in our forwards, but what we lack - and which we have lacked since 2016 - but which RSA and France have, is brains both on and off the field. I have said on another thread that, if Razor has half a brain, he will try to turn this team into an adapted 10-man rugby team that bludgeons their opposition, plays for set pieces, and attacks only off counterattacking chaos ball - that would be making the most of our actual rather than imagined talents. This bullshit about "our DNA" really grinds my gears because the actual DNA of the best players we have available would be much better suited to an entirely different game plan.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
I was hoping that was just another sensational media headline
But no, that's the AB coach wanting players who left NZ, in black and white.
That's fucking disgraceful.
And, his rationale, TBH, is SA is a bit better than us so can we play by their rules?
That's not quite the coaching genius I signed up for.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
Don't get the hate for Wilson myself, think he's not bad.
Screams company man who'll say what he's told to. Legend as a player, but seriously limited as a commentator or analyst. Struck me as very sycophantic.
Not great on The Breakdown, but much better on commentary where he has to speak off the cuff and call it as he sees it. Made some really good comments about how we are using Rieko - i.e. completing wasting his talents. And in fairness to Goldie, he was relatively critical on The Breakdown today.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
I was hoping that was just another sensational media headline
But no, that's the AB coach wanting players who left NZ, in black and white.
That's fucking disgraceful.
And more to the point.
The players who left, did so, knowing they would be ineligible for Allblack selection going forward.
They didnt want to put their shoulder to the Allblack wheel anymore.
Fuck them.
I dont want any of them back.
You're with us or you're against us.
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@Billy-Tell Good point, if we had access to our Australian based Kiwis in Super Rugby, we would have a bit more depth. I wonder if he wants players to play Npc so they are All Black eligible as opposed to Super Rugby only playing for Kiwi franchises.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
The players who left, did so, knowing they would be ineligible for Allblack selection going forward.
Well some, but maybe some who were close to who they knew would be coach were told to cash in and he would get them back in the fold?
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Robertson to up ante on selecting overseas players for All Blacks
The All Blacks coach, reflecting on his first year in charge, said he will make a submission to the NZ Rugby board about changing the selection criteria.
I think I've been had. I'm already very bearish on next season if that's how he feels. Perhaps the SuperCoach should just select good players and coach, instead of fapping over guys that chose to leave?
Quote from the article.
“You cannot replace Test experience – that’s one thing I’ve learned. Hence why Sam Cane has been so valuable. That’s the consistency that South Africa have at the moment."
This is BS. No wonder he's been picking complete has beens all year.
Experience is not fungible/equal.
A lot of the old heads in this group have had a decade of being losers, breaking records for losing, and just in general being inferior. They have BAD experience.
No surprise our best players all year have been debutants who have taken it directly to teams that have been dominating us recently.
Or 2004 where we transformed the team in ONE EOYT by leaving behind Spencer/Marshall and a bunch of experienced MUST HAVE players.
And the next gen took over and dominated the world.
We are on the cusp of that here but apparently Razor is scared to pull the switch.
Don't forget our best player in Sititi this year may have only had 80 minutes of game time all year if it wasn't for that Blackadder injury.
Or seeing Aumua step up when he had no CHOICE after Taylors early injury, and he performed and became a monster this tour, after finally being given a full game instead of a BS garbage time 15 minutes at the end.
We have a bunch of toxic nepotism picks who have been losers for near a DECADE holding us up with our next generation just waiting in the stands until they get they their chance.
Beauden/Rieko/Jordie are immediate examples.
Scott Barret/Reece, possibly Ardie are more.
More than half the team currently literally aren't the best in NZ.
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The fact that he thinks the issue is the overseas policy is just embarrassing.
We have all the players we need already in NZ.
The fact he can't see that is extremely disturbing.
Also sends a nice message and an ironic hit to the apparent brotherhood he has formed with his players.
'You aren't good enough'
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@junior said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
I think what we’ve seen is what would happen if any of us had the chance to select and coach the ABs. We’ve got this idea in our head of a style of play and what we think will work, and then very quickly - how does the Mike Tyson quote go? - everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. Under Razor the ABs are trying to play a skills-based game to out manoeuvre their opposition. The interesting thing is, we’ve actually discovered some dimensions to our power game (Sititi, Aumua, Paddy to an extent… Ardie for about 3 mins every game). So, what he needs to do, is quickly sort out how to diversify the approach so we don’t just rely on out-highlights reeling the opposition. Don’t forget, we’ve been there or there abouts with the best teams in the world this year. Is it good enough yet? No. Is there the potential to grow consistently into the best team in the world? In the basis of some of the young players coming through, I would say yes. But Razor’s got some hard/brave calls to make in 2025.
I'm not sure about potential. France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.
They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.
They're winning games against us with young players coming through.
We have some real potential particularly in our forwards, but what we lack - and which we have lacked since 2016 - but which RSA and France have, is brains both on and off the field. I have said on another thread that, if Razor has half a brain, he will try to turn this team into an adapted 10-man rugby team that bludgeons their opposition, plays for set pieces, and attacks only off counterattacking chaos ball - that would be making the most of our actual rather than imagined talents. This bullshit about "our DNA" really grinds my gears because the actual DNA of the best players we have available would be much better suited to an entirely different game plan.
The AB DNA chestnut is bullshit anyway. In the 70s we played 10 man rugby. In the 80s we had some great backs, but Grant Fox (predominantly kicking 10 😱) ran the cutter and our forwards were strong and tough. Sure, between 2012 to 2015 we were the masters of total rugby, but times change and so must we. That's the DNA of the ABs, toughness, smarts, ruthlessness, winning. Not the high risk, dated gameplan we are seeing right now
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
The fact that he thinks the issue is the overseas policy is just embarrassing.
We have all the players we need already in NZ.
The fact he can't see that is extremely disturbing.
Also sends a nice message and an ironic hit to the apparent brotherhood he has formed with his players.
'You aren't good enough'
If you don't consistently select players that might actually crack it, it's much easier to say we don't have the cattle and change the rules. Innovation!
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I think I would summarize the season as A for the forwards and F for the backs. We have created genuine depth up front and are capable of matching or exceeding all the top sides in the world. Probably still need a genuine line out option at 6. The backs on the other hand are a shambles : no player depth created, no style of play, no gameplan, no chemistry. The only thing we have is experience and Razor seems to value that above everything. Such a contrast to the other top nations , we have seen their backs improve in front of our eyes and we have seen fantastic new talent being blooded.
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A- for the forwards from me. Scott Barrett and Ardie Savea were a bit disappointing. Hoskins Sotutu wasn't selected. Sami T and Ethan Blackadder were injured, but the rest of the forwards did really well. Lots of players had their best season to date.
Defence: B. Disappointing against Argentina in Wellington but solid enough in every other game
Back line attack: D. Often rudderless and unthreatening. The weakest the AB backline has been in 30 years. A major rethink is needed.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
The All Blacks coach, reflecting on his first year in charge, said he will make a submission to the NZ Rugby board about changing the selection criteria.
I think I've been had. I'm already very bearish on next season if that's how he feels. Perhaps the SuperCoach should just select good players and coach, instead of fapping over guys that chose to leave?
Fuck no I am dead against picking overseas players.It will be the death nail of our competitions imo.
If players want to come back no problems but play in our competitions to be selected.
It sounds like Razor wants to keep Cane ffs.
Stupid idea Razor get your shit together and promote the players we have playing locally and players who return to play locally.Imagine the state of Super Rugby if it happened.
We'd be having the likes of Peter Umaga-Jensen, Dallas McLeod and Angus Ta'avao as our headline acts for the comp.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2024:
@DMX Yes, the forwards are the best they've been since 2015, but the backs the worst they've been for a long time.
Maybe the forwards are the result of continuity in coaching? That forwards like Vaa'i and Williams have kicked on and Sititi has slotted in so well looks to be the result of a coach who's been thru some up and downs but is now comfortable in his role.
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@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Billy-Tell Good point, if we had access to our Australian based Kiwis in Super Rugby, we would have a bit more depth. I wonder if he wants players to play Npc so they are All Black eligible as opposed to Super Rugby only playing for Kiwi franchises.
I always think about our All Blacks playing under Aussie based coaches. Can't say I'm really a fan of that either, as i dont really want our players playing under the Darren Coleman's and Dave Wessels' of the world, but still more of a fan of it than our players going and playing touch rugby in Japan at the same time.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
Experience is not fungible/equal.
Take your point, but experience is bloody important. I'm sure Sititi, Roigard, Ratima, Lakai etc, learnt a lot from Cane and TJP - as we saw when Robertson's selections were forced by injury. Credit where credit's due that they were able to shine.
That said, Robertson sticking with the likes of Havili, BB & ALB while hardly playing Proctor, Plummer et al is unfathomable bollocks.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
as we saw when Robertson's selections were forced by injury
We don't really know that. Perhaps they would've learned more playing alongside better players that help them to excel?
