All Blacks 2024
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
Here's another way of looking at the ABs and the Crusaders.
How many tough decisions has Razor made regarding his old Crusaders players that were already AB capped and not selecting them for the ABs?
He hasn't made a single tough call on a capped AB Crusader that I can see.
And what tough decisions has he made with capped Hurricanes or Chiefs players?
He selected Narawa, barely played him and then cut him
Hasn't selected Tupaea at all
Those are 2 off the top of my head.
Tupaea, Ennor, McLeod.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
Here's another way of looking at the ABs and the Crusaders.
How many tough decisions has Razor made regarding his old Crusaders players that were already AB capped and not selecting them for the ABs?
He hasn't made a single tough call on a capped AB Crusader that I can see.
And what tough decisions has he made with capped Hurricanes or Chiefs players?
He selected Narawa, barely played him and then cut him
Hasn't selected Tupaea at all
Those are 2 off the top of my head.
Tupaea, Ennor, McLeod.
Ennor wasn't eligible (injured) and it sounds like he might on the end of year tour now he is fit
I'll add McLeod to the list alongside Grace - though Tupaea was much more an established AB than McLeod was.
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@george33 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life to many midfielders especially with Ennor, Havilli, Reiko, ALB, Jordie, and apparently Fihaki can play midfield as well. Who would no tho. Another rumour is Gallagher will also make EOYT.
Proctor is ahead of Ennor in the pecking order and Fihaki isn't a centre. Apart from being Cantabs, there is no reason to suggest they will push out Proctor from the EOYT squad.
It's going to be interesting times when the ABs start sliding down the World rankings with some of these pathetic selections if they end up being true.
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I have a feeling that Wayne Smith is behind a lot of the current selections being made from the out set.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Jet Think a big casualty will be Billy Proctor come EOYT.
On what basis? Best performing centre all year in Super, one of the standout players in his one start against Fiji. I guess Razor doesn't like players that consistently perform to a high standard, instead he prefers players that spend half of their career broken or alternatively players who have experience but are about 5 years past their best.
No wonder the All Blacks don't have the mana and the winning % they once used to.
On the basis of al his talk about players being able to play more than one position, I guess. One position well is less than two poorly in Razor's eyes
Not that I agree but I feel this might well happen
Well in that case we will never have the best players playing for the ABs, we'll just have a bunch of average Harry's that gain selection only because they can play multiple positions. What a crock of shite. This is exactly why the ABs continue to struggle because we keep doing the same shit and expect different results.
When the ABs were at their peak in 2015 we had our best players playing in their specialist positions. ie. Conrad Smith was seen as purely a centre, Nonu as a 12, Kaino as a 6. McCaw as a 7, Read as an 8, Carter as a 10 etc etc. We achieved consistently excellent results because selection wasn't based on the bullshit that we see today.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B so before becoming established as first choice....but over 80 tests in 8 years tells me he played most test for a long time....so exactly who we should be building a team around
People wrote exactly the same thing on here about Conrad (and Kahui) - always injured, need to move on....
TBH if we followed the prevailing fern logic, we'd have fuck all players, because we wouldn't be picking people from overseas, or who've signed overseas, or are perceived as a bit old, or who get injured too much, or who play for the Crusaders.
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@george33 said in All Blacks 2024:
Have been told , that barring another injury expect to see Brayden Ennor in the EOYT , don't agree with that 1.
This barely qualifies as evolution of Foster's reign when we were promised revolution.
Insert AI generated image of Back to the Future with Marty replaced by Razor.
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Good post. We need more specialists but unfortunately it's definitely not part of Razor's philosophy. It's worked for him at Super level but it's a struggle at test level.
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darylmitchellreplied to Machpants on 25 Sept 2024, 02:28 last edited by darylmitchell 25 Sept 2024, 02:29
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Clarke's position in the squad is now tenuous
More like Telea who's 28 and past it now, Clarke is peaking and will only get better - same with LF, he's only 23.
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darylmitchellreplied to Canes4life on 25 Sept 2024, 02:36 last edited by darylmitchell 25 Sept 2024, 02:38
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Jet Think a big casualty will be Billy Proctor come EOYT.
On what basis? Best performing centre all year in Super, one of the standout players in his one start against Fiji. I guess Razor doesn't like players that consistently perform to a high standard, instead he prefers players that spend half of their career broken or alternatively players who have experience but are about 5 years past their best.
No wonder the All Blacks don't have the mana and the winning % they once used to.
Hey mate, I mentioned you in an earlier post, was wondering about hearing your thoughts as a Canes fan.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
When the ABs were at their peak in 2015 we had our best players playing in their specialist positions. ie. Conrad Smith was seen as purely a centre, Nonu as a 12, Kaino as a 6. McCaw as a 7, Read as an 8, Carter as a 10 etc etc. We achieved consistently excellent results because selection wasn't based on the bullshit that we see today.
I reckon you'd find there was a bit more shifting around than you recall.
Just in the 2015 RWC Final, SBW replaced Conrad at halftime and played at centre - a position he only ever once started in for the ABs.
Beaudy came on for NMS - I pretty sure at fullback and pushed Ben Smith to the right wing.
Beaudy was also our first five reserve and started there in at least one of the pool matches.
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@Chris-B i feel that kind of proves the point, mostly the versatile player came off the bench (SBW and BB)....but specialists mostly started...almost we should be treating them as specialist positions rather than seeming randomly rotating player on and off
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@Kiwiwomble Don't get me wrong, I like specialisation - but, hasn't that largely been the case this year, as well?
Have we had anyone who's not a specialist at any of 1,2,3,4,5,8,9,10,11,12,13?
Sititi playing 6 has been a bit of a surprise. Blackadder got a run vs Fiji at 7. He and Jacobsen are bits of Chris Masoe/Victor Vito utilities.
ALB has been a midfield utility for years, so I don't count him.
And the transition of Jordan to fullback has been well telegraphed.
Slightly surprised that they've pushed Rieko to the wing a couple of times.
Who else?
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
4 weeks until the Japan test. 6 weeks goes until the Irish test.
Bugger, that'll be why Ennor is in, in case he is needed for the real NH tests
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@Kiwiwomble Don't get me wrong, I like specialisation - but, hasn't that largely been the case this year, as well?
Have we had anyone who's not a specialist at any of 1,2,3,4,5,8,9,10,11,12,13?
Sititi playing 6 has been a bit of a surprise. Blackadder got a run vs Fiji at 7. He and Jacobsen are bits of Chris Masoe/Victor Vito utilities.
ALB has been a midfield utility for years, so I don't count him.
And the transition of Jordan to fullback has been well telegraphed.
Slightly surprised that they've pushed Rieko to the wing a couple of times.
Who else?
the front row are all specialists generally so yeah
but scooter and vaai are often mentioned as 6 options...so no, not specilsists
both our 10's are 10/15 so no, not specialists,
reece and telea have both played on the left (havent checked if this year) when they started as right wings so no, not specilist,
RI has also covered 11 when starting in midfield,
and ALB plays both 12 and 13
and assuming the team leaked is correct we'll see havili who has play pretty much everywhere -
Barrett and Vaai are specialist locks. Using them at 6 would be not playing specialists.
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@Kiwiwomble If we're only going to pick specialists according to your definition, we won't have any players to choose from.
Scooter and Vaa'i are obviously locks.
Colin Meads played quite a few less tests than Scooter - but started twice as many as a loose forward!
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@Chris-B but the comparison was with the 2015 team...how many times did BBBR or whitekock play 6 for the AB's?
or read play 7? savea play on the right? nonu and smith play 15 or wing?
there is a big difference between what in the past was considered versatility and now where its not 100% clear several players best position
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@Kiwiwomble Talking about Razor's era - we haven't had any locks playing 6 have we?
The loosies have shuffled a bit, but mostly it's been Dalton and Cane who are specialist 7s playing 7, Ardie's been a constant at 8. Sititi's been a surprise - and Blackadder and Jacobson have been a bit like Vito was in 2015.
Actually, Ben Franks played both sides during the 2015 RWC, Kaino, Read and Vito all appear to have spent some time at lock. Cane played at 6 - these ones off the bench. SBW played at 12 and 13. Bender at 14 and 15. Beauden at 10 and 15. Colin Slade started a game at fullback.
Vito appears to have played half an hour at centre!
Haven't looked at all of the games.
Though, generally, I'd agree that it seems we've moved towatds placing greater value on utility.
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If Razor picks a bunch of players who would appear to be poorer than the players with SR form, and heaven forbid we crater in the EOYT, how long before he's called into the Principal's office?
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@canefan for me immediate, we dont want another fozzie debacle where it dragged on and frankly became less and less clear what was going on
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan for me immediate, we dont want another fozzie debacle where it dragged on and frankly became less and less clear what was going on
Fair is fair. If Fozzie faced scrutiny, so should Razor if he isn't performing
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A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
He promised much but ultimately failed to deliver because of injury
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@Kiwiwomble Talking about Razor's era - we haven't had any locks playing 6 have we?
The loosies have shuffled a bit, but mostly it's been Dalton and Cane who are specialist 7s playing 7, Ardie's been a constant at 8. Sititi's been a surprise - and Blackadder and Jacobson have been a bit like Vito was in 2015.
Actually, Ben Franks played both sides during the 2015 RWC, Kaino, Read and Vito all appear to have spent some time at lock. Cane played at 6 - these ones off the bench. SBW played at 12 and 13. Bender at 14 and 15. Beauden at 10 and 15. Colin Slade started a game at fullback.
Vito appears to have played half an hour at centre!
Haven't looked at all of the games.
Though, generally, I'd agree that it seems we've moved towatds placing greater value on utility.
“I am really big on players playing two positions; their preferred position and another position. Things change really quickly, and the utility factor is critical.”
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
If we are dreaming lets have Nonu thanks
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
If we are dreaming lets have Nonu thanks
Absolutely. I can’t even remember Goodhue at all apart from a questionable mullet.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
If we are dreaming lets have Nonu thanks
Absolutely. I can’t even remember Goodhue at all apart from a questionable mullet.
his defensive performance vs SA in WLG was incredible. Test level. But then he got injured, slow and form fell off a cliff
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
If we are dreaming lets have Nonu thanks
Absolutely. I can’t even remember Goodhue at all apart from a questionable mullet.
his defensive performance vs SA in WLG was incredible. Test level. But then he got injured, slow and form fell off a cliff
Yeah the not remembering bit is more a comment on me than anything he ever did. Coincided with me not caring a hell of a lot about rugby after so many of my favourites retired.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
When the ABs were at their peak in 2015 we had our best players playing in their specialist positions. ie. Conrad Smith was seen as purely a centre, Nonu as a 12, Kaino as a 6. McCaw as a 7, Read as an 8, Carter as a 10 etc etc. We achieved consistently excellent results because selection wasn't based on the bullshit that we see today.
I reckon you'd find there was a bit more shifting around than you recall.
Just in the 2015 RWC Final, SBW replaced Conrad at halftime and played at centre - a position he only ever once started in for the ABs.
Beaudy came on for NMS - I pretty sure at fullback and pushed Ben Smith to the right wing.
Beaudy was also our first five reserve and started there in at least one of the pool matches.
No. SBW played 12 and Nonu moved out one. Was previewed against Samoa, something at the time I thought was random.
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Love the selection of Fihaki to be brought into the squad. Thought it was really well deserved.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Barrett and Vaai are specialist locks. Using them at 6 would be not playing specialists.
In the international game it’s quite common for LH lock (slim one) to play blindside. Almost a new hybrid role.
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I’ll be disappointed if Suafoa isn’t included in the AB XV.
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@pakman Your memory is better than mine.
Doesn't change the gist of what I was saying about utility in 2015.
They also pulled Conrad for SBW in the QF vs France. Do you recall who played 2nd five in that game. It would be odd if they played SBW at centre.
n.b. on reflection, I also suspect Vito played wing rather than centre, but I definitely can't remember that game.
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Can’t believe people are saying Razor has a Crusaders bias
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
I had to do a double take on the caption of that article. We weren't "ruthless", and I can't recall many times an AB side has ever been called "rudderless". Dark times
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