All Blacks 2024
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@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Fozzie never lost a Rugby Championship
Foster only had ONE actual full RC with home and away.
2020 - no SA
2021 - no away games to SA or ARG because of COVID
2022 - the only proper RC, we had two games in SA and the 2nd test win was the decider for the entire RC, a wins a win but that match was an anomaly, the players going all out in a freak match knowing full and well that a loss would mean their coach being Sacked
2023 - shortened RC, only 3 games, and 2 of them against SA/AUS we were at home.
Razor with the current team wins each one of these.
The Foster revisionism is truly amazing.
You actually have to watch the games back from before Schmidt and Ryan joined to appreciate how truly bad our rugby was.I remember feeling HOPELESS against even Argentina we were that bad.
Every loss this year we have legitimately been in a good position and thrown it away, It's a completely different context to the lows of the Foster era where we never looked like winning ANY game.
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I'm of the opinion that the All Blacks aren't too far away from clicking, and I actually wouldn't be surprised to see them go undefeated for the rest of the year.
However, the coming three games against Australia (twice) and Japan will be crucial. All three matches should be relative gimmes - Robertson should be able to throw out basically any team using the current squad and expect a reasonable win. As such, it's crucial to find the right balance between bringing newer guys up to speed and cementing combinations before the rematch against England at Twickenham, which should be a belter.
I think the front row is well enough stocked at the moment. I'd like to see Pasilio Tosi get a start against Japan and minutes off the bench in both games against Australia. I can't imagine Xavier Numia will be brought into the squad for Australia but he should be playing against Japan at the very least. Asafo Aumua needs confidence at Test level and that means starting two of the next three matches, even though Codie Taylor is playing out of his skin. Samisoni Taukei'aho would bring a lot of additional starch to the forward pack and will hopefully be back for the EOYT.
Tupou Vaa'i has probably been the All Blacks' MVP in 2024. A rest in one of the games wouldn't hurt but you get the feeling that consistent selection has been a big factor in him stepping up this year. Sam Darry has been good and Josh Lord needs minutes too. Each of the current four locks should be getting at least one start over the next three games, and ideally, Darry would be starting a game against Australia.
The loose forwards remain a conundrum. Sam Cane is gone at the end of the year so while I can see why Razor wanted him starting against South Africa, someone else needs to be getting minutes in the No 7 jersey (though Cane should get the honour of cracking a century) - I still have no idea whether that should be Papali'i, Blackadder, Jacobsob or even Savea. Perhaps a Blackadder/Papali'i/Sititi trio with Savea coming off the bench would give the best bang for the buck? Razor has finally dropped Perenara and Barrett to the bench but they've been switching in and out over the last few years - is he willing to drop a formerly nailed-on starter in Savea to the pine? Sotutu might be worth a call-up on the EOYT given Savea's continued lack of impact.
As I said back in May...
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
If Perenara is selected to start at 9, there's zero doubt in my mind that everyone on here will be complaining endlessly when he's inevitably giving the backline terrible service in July.
Perenara is not what the All Blacks need and I don't think he's justified his selection even on the bench anymore. To be perfectly honest though, Hotham isn't any better when it comes to speed/accuracy of pass but at least there's a chance those aspects of his game might improve. Would it be smart to select Roigard for the EOYT if he hasn't played any minutes during the NPC? This is one of the biggest problem positions right now, given the lack of experience the players that look most like long-term All Blacks currently have under their belts. It could be a completely different story in a year, however. But for the moment, Ratima certainly needs to be starting until Roigard is back fit and firing.
10 is probably largely dependent on what's happening with McKenzie. If he's heading to La Rochelle then obviously it's time to move on but if he's hanging around then he should be starting at 10 for two of the three coming games with Harry Plummer getting a go in the other. Despite his goal-kicking woes on Saturday, McKenzie is still clearly the best 10 NZ has right now. I wouldn't mind seeing Josh Jacomb taken on the EOYT but maybe the All Blacks XV is a better option (though given the All Blacks have two games following that ABXV tour, he could link up with them following and perhaps ride the pine against Italy).
It's time to try either ALB or Billy Proctor at centre with Reiko shifting to the wing. I wouldn't mind seeing Proctor given first crack in the next match. Jordie Barrett is still the best option at 12 but maybe Quinn Tupaea will get a recall on the trip north (though I don't think he's the long-term answer either).
Jordan didn't have much of an impact at fullback but he didn't get a lot of touches of the ball. He's probably worthy of another start of two against Australia but obviously Ruben Love and Perofeta are both options there. Perofeta seemed like Razor's preferred option at the start of the year and I think he did quite well in both games against England but, again, is he the long-term solution? 15 is a bit like halfback where there are talented options but none of them have much in the way of experience (or, in Jordan's case, enough minutes there to say he's not up to it). Would love to see Zarn Sullivan crack on at fullback. It certainly shouldn't be Beauden Barrett, however.
My EOYT squad of 36:
Props (6): Ethan de Groot, Tamaiti Williams, Xaver Numia, Tyrel Lomax, Fletcher Newell, Pasilio Tosi
Hookers (3): Codie Taylor, Samisoni Taukei'aho/George Bell, Asafo Aumua
Locks (4): Scott Barrett, Tupou Vaa'i, Sam Darry, Josh Lord
Loose forwards (7): Ethan Blackadder, Wallace Sititi, Samipeni Finau, Dalton Papali'i, Sam Cane, Ardie Savea, Hoskins Sotutu
Halfbacks (3): Cortez Ratima, Noah Hotham, Cam Roigard/Finlay Christie (because at least he's hanging around)
First fives (3): Damian McKenzie/Josh Jacomb, Harry Plummer, Beauden Barrett
Midfield (4): Jordie Barrett, Anton Lienert-Brown, Billy Proctor, Quinn Tupaea
Outside backs (6): Will Jordan, Rieko Ioane, Caleb Clarke, Emoni Narawa, Stephen Perofeta, Ruben LoveAll Blacks XV team:
George Bower, George Bell/Ricky Riccitelli, Ofa Tu'ungafasi
Patrick Tuipulotu, Fabian Holland
Cameron Suafoa, Peter Lakai, Luke Jacobson
Finlay Christie/Folau Fakatava, Josh Jacomb
David Havili, Rameka Poihipi
Mark Tele'a, Sevu Reece
Zarn SullivanReserves:
Ricky Riccitelli/Henry Bell?, Aidan Ross, George Dyer, Max Hicks, Hugh Renton
Folau Fakatava/Taufa Funaki, Daniel Rona, Harrison Godfrey -
In summary we are in with a shout vs anyone because we have a forward pack
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Apparently Roigard did a bronco of 4.15 or something...well down the recovery road.
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Patrick Tuipolotu needs to be in the end of year tour. He offers very good go forward (Ala the blues), and is a staunch defender. Even if you only play him 30-50 minutes he offers power against the big packs.
Interesting we have a couple of young loose forwards coming out of Auckland. Suafoa is a big lump and Che Clark is a real fast, good, offloading 6. (Just unsure of his defence). Both are genuine lineout options as Clark is 6’4 and Suafoa 6’5 There’s talent on the way atleast.
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@Boston-Boy said in All Blacks 2024:
Patrick Tuipolotu needs to be in the end of year tour. He offers very good go forward (Ala the blues), and is a staunch defender. Even if you only play him 30-50 minutes he offers power against the big packs.
Interesting we have a couple of young loose forwards coming out of Auckland. Suafoa is a big lump and Che Clark is a real fast, good, offloading 6. (Just unsure of his defence). Both are genuine lineout options as Clark is 6’4 and Suafoa 6’5 There’s talent on the way atleast.
Tuipulotu was effective against England for about one half of rugby and then offered next to nothing for the rest of his minutes in that series. It's the same stuff the All Blacks have been getting from him since he first debuted.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024:
Apparently Roigard did a bronco of 4.15 or something...well down the recovery road.
What's his best
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@BerniesCorner unsure, but the AB record is about 4.10 or so?
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@Mr-Fish would like to see iose in 1 of the squads. I think he offers a lot of go forward and has X factor aswell.
Also taniela telea I thought was excellent for highlanders and I think if he stays injury free is a real option for all blacks down the line -
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
It's time to try either ALB or Billy Proctor at centre with Reiko shifting to the wing. I wouldn't mind seeing Proctor given first crack in the next match. Jordie Barrett is still the best option at 12 but maybe Quinn Tupaea will get a recall on the trip north (though I don't think he's the long-term answer either).
I agree with everything you've written but this. Everyone is looking to replace Rieko as if he's the problem. Just look at the service and options Jordie provides him with. We need to find another 12 and I'd start ALB there to see what difference that makes.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024:
Apparently Roigard did a bronco of 4.15 or something...well down the recovery road.
What's his best
4.12 according to this article.
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@kpkanz said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Fozzie never lost a Rugby Championship
Foster only had ONE actual full RC with home and away.
2020 - no SA
2021 - no away games to SA or ARG because of COVID
2022 - the only proper RC, we had two games in SA and the 2nd test win was the decider for the entire RC, a wins a win but that match was an anomaly, the players going all out in a freak match knowing full and well that a loss would mean their coach being Sacked
2023 - shortened RC, only 3 games, and 2 of them against SA/AUS we were at home.
Razor with the current team wins each one of these.
The Foster revisionism is truly amazing.
Says the bloke coming up with an alternative universe to his liking.
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Obviously frustrating that the All Blacks lost, but it feels like we are finally ready to go through the growing pains to get better - I actually think there were more positives than negatives.
Williams, Vaa'i, Sititi, Ratima and Clarke all really stepped up and have probably answered a few questions that were had. Jordan will be fine in 15, so the big question mark really left hanging over the best starting side is the right wing. Reece and Tele'a look past their best, so the question is whether we go for Love as a secondary fullback, or potentially back to Narawa. Considering how good he is on defence, Tavatavanawai could also be a shout for those bigger tests.
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Just FYI, test match performance by NZ coaches.
All the excuses for Razor, but this is historically bad.
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Well it's a fustrating year so far, overall a highly conservative selection process that has very timidly put forward any new blood into the international ranks. I don't understand in a year where you would get a free pass for rebuilding the team that we would seek to roll out as many old war horses as possible instead of training new ones.
This team can't seem to play for a full 80 minutes, Arg & SA 1 it was our defense and when we get our defence better in SA2 our attack goes missing.
The fact an assistant coach is gone already show's there's definate alignment problems there.
Whilst inidivdual players have stepped up and performed the team as a whole has not, exits and disclipine are still poor and our impact off the bench is getting worse and worse.
Yes we were close against SA and could have won both if only rugby was a 60 minute game. The last 20 minutes really cost us and it was the same in the loss to Arg.
It's a real case of one step forward and one step backwards and the team appears to be going around in circles.
I'm hoping they click and it all comes together soon, but there doesn't seem to be any real improvement.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
Just FYI, test match performance by NZ coaches.
All the excuses for Razor, but this is historically bad.
Sure, but there are also nuances to it. That loss to Argentina was an absolute fluke where we gifted them two tries, that were absolutely bizarre. Can hardly blame the coaches for that... and how often (in recent times) have we played South Africa back to back over there?
I think the long-term outlook for this All Black side is quite good, so long as Razor and his staff continue to learn and adapt, which they have thus far.
Fact is, as much as people like the idea of it, you can't drop everyone. That would lead to even worse results.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Well it's a fustrating year so far, overall a highly conservative selection process that has very timidly put forward any new blood into the international ranks. I don't understand in a year where you would get a free pass for rebuilding the team that we would seek to roll out as many old war horses as possible instead of training new ones.
This team can't seem to play for a full 80 minutes, Arg & SA 1 it was our defense and when we get our defence better in SA2 our attack goes missing.
The fact an assistant coach is gone already show's there's definate alignment problems there.
Whilst inidivdual players have stepped up and performed the team as a whole has not, exits and disclipine are still poor and our impact off the bench is getting worse and worse.
Yes we were close against SA and could have won both if only rugby was a 60 minute game. The last 20 minutes really cost us and it was the same in the loss to Arg.
It's a real case of one step forward and one step backwards and the team appears to be going around in circles.
I'm hoping they click and it all comes together soon, but there doesn't seem to be any real improvement.
yeah....at least one of two things has to be true now...either we dont have the cattle, guys just arent smart enough implement whats been coached...or Razor isnt as good a coach as we hoped
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The comparisons between Foster and Robertson are seriously premature. One had years to get better (apparently without doing so, assistants aside) the other has had months. As has been mentioned the Arg loss (which was appalling) was dreadful defence, then that got better and our offence is atrocious. Hopefully that is pendulum swinging and we find some balance.
We had RWC finalist players so pretty much had to start with them, move on from there. Like most here my major gripe is the loosies and we did have two good options that we didn’t try (yes Akira has been tried in the past but Kaino was too, he worked out OK when given another crack). We also need to address the outside backs, and to give Foster his due, as a full back Jordan makes an excellent wing. Even a stopped clock…
Change takes time and while it is happening life can be really shit.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
We all agree that if we lose against this Wallabies side Razor should be sacked?
The gloss has well and truly come off and all the hype around Robertson has turned out to be, well, hype.
What exactly were your expectations? What was the gloss? The hype? There was hope, but most were pragmatic enough to know that super isn’t test. There is evidence of change and I certainly wasn’t expecting him to waltz/ break dance in and beat the Boks at home. I gave last year’s RWC holders more credit than that. We really should have sneaked a win in the end but it wasn’t as bad as it could have been.
If Robertson goes down the Foster road and keeps doing the same things and expecting different results, then hopefully the NZRU will recognise their mistake and dispatch him, unlike Foster who got reappointed after one win in SA.
Mils for example said 4 or 5 losses for the year would be acceptable, given what was in front of a newbie coach. I had hoped for 3 but that was highly unlikely. The loss to Arg at home was truly poor but the season can be salvaged with a good EoY tour. Certainly cannot lose to Oz but even then sacking him would probably be knee jerk ( albeit that I would be freeing up space in my cellar!).
Edit: last bit re sacking in response to @Kirwan
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