All Blacks 2024
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
If Perenara is off at the end of the year, then IMO the ABs should get Fakatava in the squad now. If the ABs aren't careful they'll fumble the halfback depth situation... Ratima obviously looking the goods, but we can't bank on Roigard coming back the same player - that's a dangerous game (not to say that he won't)
Hotham is still potential, Roigard may not be the same player post injury, Christie is Christie, is Funaki ABs quality? (Personally I think he looks extra-good because he is in the best team coughs in Christe)
Fakatava may not be perfect, but he had a bloody good season in an average Landers side. Would be a shame to see him head offshore out of frustration, because behind a good pack he is a heck of a player.
With Perenara leaving, that might just close the door on TJ. In saying that I think they will treat him like Cane and will select him this year. Razor seems to like TJ, and with Roigard not back yet, he needs to be in there IMO.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
If Perenara is off at the end of the year, then IMO the ABs should get Fakatava in the squad now. If the ABs aren't careful they'll fumble the halfback depth situation... Ratima obviously looking the goods, but we can't bank on Roigard coming back the same player - that's a dangerous game (not to say that he won't)
Hotham is still potential, Roigard may not be the same player post injury, Christie is Christie, is Funaki ABs quality? (Personally I think he looks extra-good because he is in the best team coughs in Christe)
Fakatava may not be perfect, but he had a bloody good season in an average Landers side. Would be a shame to see him head offshore out of frustration, because behind a good pack he is a heck of a player.
I thought Fakatava's season was mixed - and that might be being generous.. Probably the worst of the starting halfbacks by season's end (plus the likes of Funaki, Roigard etc).
I don't think Christie or Perenara are worth persisting with. I'd rather see Funaki/Hotham in there behind Roigard and Ratima. I think Fakatava could potentially get back to the level needed but I think that's most likely come with getting more and more games under his belt post injury, which means a full season for Hawke's Bay without any ABs distractions.
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@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Braydon Ennor named in the Canterbury NPC team, could he be on EOYT?
Only if he has a stand out NPC. I'd rather see someone like Poihipi come in as that 5th centre.
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@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Braydon Ennor named in the Canterbury NPC team, could he be on EOYT?
You would think Proctor has well and truly jumped him in the pecking order. Unless there’s an injury I can’t see him making it. In saying that, he is a red and black soooo……
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
If Perenara is off at the end of the year, then IMO the ABs should get Fakatava in the squad now. If the ABs aren't careful they'll fumble the halfback depth situation... Ratima obviously looking the goods, but we can't bank on Roigard coming back the same player - that's a dangerous game (not to say that he won't)
Hotham is still potential, Roigard may not be the same player post injury, Christie is Christie, is Funaki ABs quality? (Personally I think he looks extra-good because he is in the best team coughs in Christe)
Fakatava may not be perfect, but he had a bloody good season in an average Landers side. Would be a shame to see him head offshore out of frustration, because behind a good pack he is a heck of a player.
I thought Fakatava's season was mixed - and that might be being generous.. Probably the worst of the starting halfbacks by season's end (plus the likes of Funaki, Roigard etc).
I don't think Christie or Perenara are worth persisting with. I'd rather see Funaki/Hotham in there behind Roigard and Ratima. I think Fakatava could potentially get back to the level needed but I think that's most likely come with getting more and more games under his belt post injury, which means a full season for Hawke's Bay without any ABs distractions.
I like Fakatava, can be really good just needs more game time and to choose his moments. Roigard obviously. Ratima looking good. Hotham pretty good for 21, and Funaki lots of potential too. Pledger the best player in the U20s.
That's actually pretty impressive young depth in one position. Stop picking old fluffybunnies. -
I reckon you guys might find our halfback depth is about as good as the loose forward depth that a couple of months ago was being written about how blessed we are with amazing depth in a new generation of loose forwards.
Roigard has started two tests - vs Namibia and Uruguay + 3 from the bench
Fakatava - two from the bench
Ratima - started vs Fiji +one off the bench
Hotham - one off the bench
Funaki - none - and Stern Vern reverted to Christie as soon as he had him available.One thing that is very apparent e.g. by watching the rotation of Hall and Drummond at the Crusaders - is how much easier it is (and how much better they look) for halfbacks to come off the bench.
There's plenty of time to develop these young guys and bring them through with the training wheels of having them paired with TJ and Christie - firstly coming off the bench, then starting vs weaker opposition and then starting against Tier 1.
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@Chris-B "young" depth, and Ratima outplayed Perenara pretty comprehensively in the Super semi.
I for one wasn't crowing about our loose forward quality. Depth: well yeah, I guess we've got more small-medium sized 6.5s any team could ever want. -
@reprobate Not TJ's finest night - but, the following one wasn't fabulous for Ratima.
If we're in South Africa and one of our young guns is starting and being killed - I reckon we'll be a lot better off with TJ or Christie coming on and having some experience in piloting us home - than throwing another young guy to the lions.
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Fakatava had been around for quite awhile now that it’s easy to forget he is still only 24. Technically hasn’t reached his prime years yet. He had an average season for his standards and I’m sure he’s disappointed but I’m expecting him to be hungry and absolutely dominate in the NPC. I still have faith in the guy to improve and continue to be there or there abouts.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Braydon Ennor named in the Canterbury NPC team, could he be on EOYT?
Only if he has a stand out NPC. I'd rather see someone like Poihipi come in as that 5th centre.
AJ Lam could be a possible bolter if they take five midfielders.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B I could handle one of them on the bench, but why start them, why pick both?
I'm sure they will transition to the young guys - and I'll leave that up to Razor and Co. how fast they do it.
But, the most important thing at the moment is that we keep winning as much as possible (refer 2022). And, it's quite possible that the best combo to deliver consistent wins, right now, is to pick TJ and Finlay for the biggest games - even though from the outside it doesn't look like it.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Fozzie and Schmidt picked Finlay on the bench for the RWC Final and then Vern picked Finlay to start the play-off matches in Super this year.
We sort of go, WTF - but, we've had decades of All Black coaches telling us how important experience is. And decades of observing that it's harder to get dropped from the ABs than to get picked. And I think that happens for good reasons.
Hansen spent most of his tenure telling us how much experience should be valued - and then right at the end he abandoned his own philosophy - panicked and picked a rookie backline in 2019, when he could have picked experience - Beauden, SBW, Crotty, Reiko and Ben Smith (and Sam Cane). I wish someone would ask him about this (but, I digress).
We lost - and we lost in 2007 with a bunch of newbies running on among the inside backs.
To make a very ageist comment - but, fuck it, a girl at the supermarket checkout asked me if I was eligible for a gold card earlier this week
- none of the guys I mentioned earlier are 25 yet. And if I look at the sub-25 kids at my work, you barely trust them to do some filing in alphabetical order. And my bro-in-law, who's a builder, makes similar comments about his apprentices. These guys are just kids. Just because they're good at sport, doesn't mean they're proper grown ups to be entrusted with the keys to the ABs.And they'd be morons (or their agents would) to fuck off overseas at this point without racking up a bunch of test caps and ratcheting up their price.
So, I reckon, use TJ and Christie to lead them and support them this year. Develop Ratima. Bring Roigard in for the EOYT tour. Maybe take Hotham (or one of the others) on the EOYT as an apprentice.
TJ will disappear at the end of the year
If we've got three young guys ready for test rugby at the end of 2025 - with Finlay still in the mix and a couple of others knocking at the door and maybe with a couple of bench caps, that's plenty fast enough for me.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B that's all well and good, but Roigard is a sub-25 kid too and look how he went.
If you're good enough, you're old enough, and the best way to develop Ratima is to play him.Well, we don't know what Razor & Co will do with Roigard - my point is that Fozzie and Schmidt didn't pick him over Christie - and I don't think it's because they're just morons.
They've played Ratima.
I thought they might start Christie vs Fiji, but they picked Ratima and Noah. So they might be on faster track than me - but, I reckon they'll pick TJ and Finlay in the squad for the next set of games.
Razor's won seven Super titles and I haven't won any, so I'm going to trust him until things fall apart.
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@Chris-B Foster refused to pick De Groot and Lomax until injury intervened. Maybe not a moron (just maybe, and only if I'm feeling kind), but definitely a deeply conservative selector.
I'm hoping for better from Razor - in part because Foster won the same number of super titles as you. -
@reprobate I'm hoping for better results from Razor, as well.
But, I've got some sympathy for Fozzie's position compared with us armchair selectors.
He's got to deal with HR management issues. If he drops an established All Black for a newbie, there's a pretty significant message being delivered there - and a very big chunk of cash.
This year, Dave Havili is the best example. Not required. Wouldn't be surprising if he fucked off. But, quite likely he's the fifth best midfielder we have.
Akira Ioane was in a similar boat - somewhere in the picture, but not actually earning the big money - and now he's gone.
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It just feels wrong you comparing DH and Akira. The latter had a bigger boat and he left far more in his wake...
