RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks
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@antipodean In fairness to you, I'm probably making the point in response to the wrong person's post.
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@antipodean said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@Machpants said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
Spiro Zavos on the roar is right on the money about the abs
Hilarious nonsense. He's calling for Ardie to play openside for the All Blacks, despite the fact he doesn't even play that position in SR and hasn't for years. Quoting Spiro makes any argument ridiculous.
Perhaps there’s an alternate view that Savea can and does play 8 in SR because it’s not Test Rugby
Unfortunately the RWC is Test rugby, not SR.
That was exactly my point
For Test rugby
Nasty bastard at 6
Big lump at 8
Ardie at 7You haven't found players who can fill those 6 and 8 positions consistently hence having to play Ardie at 8
You have that arse about face. Because Ardie plays at 8 and Cane is nailed on (when fit) to play at 7, we're searching for a god to play at 6 to address the shortcomings of a player that isn't really a lineout option and doesn't hit rucks, while the other who isn't really a lineout option either, is too busy cleaning up rucks and smacking fluffybunnies to attempt to steal any ball.
That's Foster's fault for selecting Cane as Captain
If I had to bet my house, then I would start Ardie at 7 over Cane every day of the week and twice on Sunday
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@antipodean His name is Scott Barrett. He hits rucks, is a lineout forward and has the athleticism to get around the park for 80 mins.
But he won't be played at 6 because of the other locks in the squad:
- one is coming back from injury
- one is creaking a bit and has to be managed
- and the other - i've no idea why Vaa'i is there
Given Lord played at Twickenham, i'm surprised he didn't make the grade. It isn't like Vaa'i has bags of experience over him. Or was the squad already decided by the time of the SA Twickenham test? Which suggests Vaa'i was selected as the lock/6 option rather than Barrett.
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@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean His name is Scott Barrett. He hits rucks, is a lineout forward and has the athleticism to get around the park for 80 mins.
But he won't be played at 6 because of the other locks in the squad:
- one is coming back from injury
- one is creaking a bit and has to be managed
- and the other - i've no idea why Vaa'i is there
We only have three locks, two of whom are shadows of their former brilliant selves and one of them is injured. This means we can't put Scott on the blindside when he's basically our best lock.
Given Lord played at Twickenham, i'm surprised he didn't make the grade. It isn't like Vaa'i has bags of experience over him. Or was the squad already decided by the time of the SA Twickenham test? Which suggests Vaa'i was selected as the lock/6 option rather than Barrett.
Agreed. I made the point before the RWC that they should take Lord as their fourth lock.
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@MiketheSnow I don't see what is wrong with Cane at 7. He does the dirty work. He moves bodies. He hits hard. He is on hand to support. He generally has low error games. He's a textbook test player.
I don't think he's as effective as before his last major injury, but I think he gets a bad press.
Savea had ample opportunity to showcase his leadership skills in the game against France, but didn't do much. He had a couple of flurries at the end of the first half when the French looked spent, but then he decided to go for 3 when the French were under the pump. The great chip at beginning of second half aside, he had the ball stripped as he crossed the line at the end of second half. He got monstered mostly in traffic as France put 2 or 3 on him when he carried.
I'm not pro-Cane. He has a completely different game to Savea. But he is always in doing the dirty work and I think the ABs missed that on Friday.
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@MiketheSnow Gatland loves Cane. That should speak volumes to a Welshman
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@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@MiketheSnow I don't see what is wrong with Cane at 7. He does the dirty work. He moves bodies. He hits hard. He is on hand to support. He generally has low error games. He's a textbook test player.
I don't think he's as effective as before his last major injury, but I think he gets a bad press.
Savea had ample opportunity to showcase his leadership skills in the game against France, but didn't do much. He had a couple of flurries at the end of the first half when the French looked spent, but then he decided to go for 3 when the French were under the pump. The great chip at beginning of second half aside, he had the ball stripped as he crossed the line at the end of second half. He got monstered mostly in traffic as France put 2 or 3 on him when he carried.
I'm not pro-Cane. He has a completely different game to Savea. But he is always in doing the dirty work and I think the ABs missed that on Friday.
You've just described the 6 you're looking for
And I wasn't advocating Ardie getting the 7 shirt and armband, just the shirt
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@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@MiketheSnow Gatland loves Cane. That should speak volumes to a Welshman
He also loves Lydiate, who in his time was the dogs bollocks
Lydiate will maybe play against Portugal and Georgia but he won't get near the big game 23s unless we have a raft of injuries and/or suspensions
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@MiketheSnow But did he didn't make Lydiate his captain in this squad. Whereas he did make Cane captain of his Chiefs (albeit in 2000)
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The one key stat that explains why France won
STATISTICAL ANALYSES: Hosts France made a clear statement of intent, with a very 'miserly' approach to the game.
"Key to France’s success was the fact that they conceded the fewest penalties in the opening round of the tournament – with just five - half their best tally across the warm-up matches.
In start contrast, the All Blacks gave away 13 penalties on attack alone.
New Zealand were ranked fourth overall for defenders beaten with 32 – wing Mark Talea topping individual rankings with 11 defenders beaten – and fifth for metres made with 629, but they were unable to translate those numbers on the scoreboard.
France made five more offloads than their highest total during their four games in the World Cup warm-up matches.
France made eight dominant tackles to New Zealand’s three, representing New Zealand’s lowest dominant tackle count across the warm-up matches.
The game also produced highest ball in play time that France endured in all their warm-up matches – nearly 32 minutes.
France dominated territory with 61 percent, 14 percent higher than their average during the warm-up matches and the most of any single game.
France kicked on 76 percent of their possession – they didn’t reach higher than 61 percent during the warm-up matches. Their 44 kicks in total was also their highest across that period with an average previously of 25 per game.
France conceded only one penalty in attack, proving efficiency with the ball – with only two teams across all the warm-up matches conceded fewer.
In contrast, the All Blacks conceded one penalty fewer than their loss against South Africa, but it included the most penalties they have conceded in attack."
Better cohesion needed between ball carrier and cleaners. That should be right up Joe Schmidt's street.
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@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@MiketheSnow But did he didn't make Lydiate his captain in this squad. Whereas he did make Cane captain of his Chiefs (albeit in 2000)
Better candidates in this Welsh squad
Obviously not in that Chiefs squad
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You guys have a pretty good pack overall, but missing in glaring places, which affects the balance.
IMO opinion and based on my experience as a fairly poor player over a number of seasons.
You have a great 7 (Savea), two bloody good 6s (Cane and Barret), one good lock (Barrett) and no real 8. This requires shoehorning players into not there best positions to make a competitive pack.
I can't believe that in NZ there is not the cattle to put a better balance as an option, but to be fair I do not follow SR or NPC. All I know is that the current selection and dependency on ageing old warriors is reminiscent of England circa 1932 - 2023.
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@Catogrande If only Barret could play 6 and lock at the same time. Problem solved
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@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@Catogrande If only Barret could play 6 and lock at the same time. Problem solved
Wouldn't that just lead to 2x the cards?
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@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@Catogrande If only Barret could play 6 and lock at the same time. Problem solved
We'd still need a number 8
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@KiwiMurph said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@Catogrande If only Barret could play 6 and lock at the same time. Problem solved
We'd still need a number 8
If only Sotutu's form hadn't fallen off a cliff playing for the coaching donkey McDonald.
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@taniwharugby said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@Kiwiwomble yeah I wonder what the rationale was behind him not contesting them in the air, assume they were hoping he'd get the man on the ground and force them to play inside thier half, was just odd to restrict a weapon like that.
i kind of thought he was just going to take the ball on the full at top speed and smoker everyone....ignorant of the player jumping over him which for me was his mistake rather than timing
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@Machpants said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
Spiro Zavos on the roar is right on the money about the abs
Hilarious nonsense. He's calling for Ardie to play openside for the All Blacks, despite the fact he doesn't even play that position in SR and hasn't for years. Quoting Spiro makes any argument ridiculous.
Perhaps there’s an alternate view that Savea can and does play 8 in SR because it’s not Test Rugby
Unfortunately the RWC is Test rugby, not SR.
That was exactly my point
For Test rugby
Nasty bastard at 6
Big lump at 8
Ardie at 7You haven't found players who can fill those 6 a7 tnd 8 positions consistently hence having to play Ardie at 8
you might be right but it seems to me they choose Ardie at 8 and Cane at 7 then the 6, Ardie no longer plays 7 (or wants to?) so they aren't putting him there at 8 because they can't find a 6 and 8. They play him at 8 because he plays/wants to play at 8.
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lol so some NZ scribes not afraid to say how they really feel
New Zealand is accepting of the defeat from schoolboy-like All Blacks
I think under coach Ian Foster’s tenure we’ve become accustomed to defeat. We don’t necessarily accept it, but we expect it.
