NZR review
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@nzzp said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Winger said in NZR review:
@KiwiMurph said in NZR review:
“The experts have told us what right looks like, so it's really just about getting on and implementing those recommendations.”
What an idiotic comment by someone who should have more sense.
Would you rather implement recommendations from people with no demonstrated knowledge or competence?
I've seen all sorts from org design consultants - some exceptional work, some horrific. You have to test it, not just roll over and implement it.
I'm sure they've done their due diligence having received the report. Even if there are shit consultants (and there are), that doesn't support @Winger's default denunciation of anyone with recognised expertise.
This doesn't look like a organisational refresh for the sake of one. It's clear that the structure of rugby in New Zealand requires rethinking and a refresh to account for the fact what worked pre-professionalism is not fit for purpose now. No amount of hand wringing or misty eyed recollection of bygone eras counters that stark realism.
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@nzzp said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Winger said in NZR review:
@KiwiMurph said in NZR review:
“The experts have told us what right looks like, so it's really just about getting on and implementing those recommendations.”
What an idiotic comment by someone who should have more sense.
Would you rather implement recommendations from people with no demonstrated knowledge or competence?
I've seen all sorts from org design consultants - some exceptional work, some horrific. You have to test it, not just roll over and implement it.
there arent too many ways to FULLY test these things though other than giving it a go and closely evaluating
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@antipodean said in NZR review:
I'm sure they've done their due diligence having received the report. Even if there are shit consultants (and there are), that doesn't support @Winger's default denunciation of anyone with recognized expertise.
The West has been infected by a mind virus. Maybe due to religion (where it likely started). Where we have been collectively brainwashed to not think for ourselves. And instead, just trust the often bought and paid for (so-called) experts. Whether it's a religious leader or a science expert. Or a hired NZR 'expert'.
And I'm always cautious of anyone who advises to just trust the expert. It suggests their case is not very strong. Also it insulting to anyone who has a different viewpoint.
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@Winger this....is a hot take even for you
NZR are literally seeking advice....someone hasnt just written a paper on spec...and then NZR have decided to follow it
they are trying to have a custom solutions and so have sought advice from people who have more knowledge then they do
what would you have them do? go away and spend years studying for themselves so they become experts....without listening to anyone else to avoid joining a cult by mistake....and then implement a plan but only if its not something that anyone else would do
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@Winger said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
I'm sure they've done their due diligence having received the report. Even if there are shit consultants (and there are), that doesn't support @Winger's default denunciation of anyone with recognized expertise.
The West has been infected by a mind virus. Maybe due to religion (where it likely started). Where we have been collectively brainwashed to not think for ourselves. And instead, just trust the often bought and paid for (so-called) experts. Whether it's a religious leader or a science expert. Or a hired NZR 'expert'.
And I'm always cautious of anyone who advises to just trust the expert. It suggests their case is not very strong. Also it insulting to anyone who has a different viewpoint.
Yeah, I often listen to the plumber's opinion on an MRI
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@antipodean in fairness....i dont think thats what hes suggesting...more that you just work out how to operate (theyre point and click) and interpret the result from the MRI yourself rather than trusting a doctor or technician as they are inherently evil
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@Kiwiwomble well unfortunately I'm just not smart enough to learn everything and if I was, I don't think I'd have the time.
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The West has been infected by a mind virus. Maybe due to religion (where it likely started). Where many have been collectively brainwashed to not trust anybody claiming expertise. And instead, just trust the often nonsensical rantings of any random nutter. Whether it's a religious leader or a (self-claimed but...) unqualified science 'expert'. Or one's self (think for one's self, without knowledge - for the win!).
And I'm always cautious of anyone who refuses to listen to a qualified expert. It suggests they are a fucking idiot. Also, glad to insult anyone who has a different viewpoint.
(obviously - any "experts" need to be judged, according to qualifications, experience, results, etc... but refusing to believe anybody with an MD, for eg (in the correct fucking field) over and above some shit you saw on a youtube video... you're a fucking retard.)
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@Winger said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
I'm sure they've done their due diligence having received the report. Even if there are shit consultants (and there are), that doesn't support @Winger's default denunciation of anyone with recognized expertise.
The West has been infected by a mind virus. Maybe due to religion (where it likely started). Where we have been collectively brainwashed to not think for ourselves. And instead, just trust the often bought and paid for (so-called) experts. Whether it's a religious leader or a science expert. Or a hired NZR 'expert'.
And I'm always cautious of anyone who advises to just trust the expert. It suggests their case is not very strong. Also it insulting to anyone who has a different viewpoint.
Or:
Fuck I'm close to creating 10 dummy accounts to upvote this shitloads.
Magic.
Finger-tips to the lips, and... kissy-noise.
... chef's kiss. -
I not sure how much I like the recommendations made, but really what the hell do I or really any of us know to say it right or wrong. Apparently the provincial unions have sent a leeter to NZR saying they agree there needs to be change. I know we all rightfully have opinions, but do we know more about how rugby should be run than the people who are running the game now? And if so why aren't we doing job anyway.
I will say there are things I seem to not like but haven't seen all facrs etc. Like NPC , my favourite comp,bar none, they go along with NZR thinking there needs to be changes, I do suspect quite a few provincial boards think so to, it's getting agreement on how and what (I betting we will have less teams), but when it gets into public discussion , we the uninformed tend to jump on anything that means change . As I said personally I not keen on some of things I have seen in report, but that's me looking at it from my point of view and being at one stage on a provincial union board, and not liking the idea of any loss of say from them. -
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
@antipodean in fairness....i dont think thats what hes suggesting...more that you just work out how to operate (theyre point and click) and interpret the result from the MRI yourself rather than trusting a doctor or technician as they are inherently evil
Workin in Radiology, MRI are not point and click lol. No way I could use one correctly, and I support them ICT, and no way I could report on the result. I'm not an expert, but maybe I should - free my mind, not be hypnotized by hundreds of years of scientific advancement. Go with the gut
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@Kruse said in NZR review:
(obviously - any "experts" need to be judged, according to qualifications, experience, results, etc... but refusing to believe anybody with an MD, for eg (in the correct fucking field) over and above some shit you saw on a youtube video... you're a fucking retard.)
The retards are those that listen without thinking to all these corrupt, bought and paid for 'experts'. I put them in the same league as religious devotees. One bows down to religion. The other experts. Both refuses, or can't, think for themselves. (Maybe it due to something like all these chemicals in our food or water
)And just for the (brain-dead) blue pill takers who can't, or refuse to, think for themselves. Not all experts are the same. So please don't give me shit like what about flying on planes. Or equally as bad but what about an MRI scan? Some experts are great. Some are bought and paid for, corrupt fools. But the brain-dead / innocent & child-like adults put both in the same category. And trust without thinking.
And don't insult plumbers (on a previous post). Who may have played rugby, reffed rugby, been a rugby administrator, run a profitable and successful business etc. Who just may be worth listening to.
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@Dan54 said in NZR review:
but really what the hell do I or really any of us know to say it right or wrong.
My view is we have a brain for a reason. Why not use it? Then the best ideas will win. Not just the views, often with self-interest involved, with the most money or power.
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@Machpants said in NZR review:
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
@antipodean in fairness....i dont think thats what hes suggesting...more that you just work out how to operate (theyre point and click) and interpret the result from the MRI yourself rather than trusting a doctor or technician as they are inherently evil
Workin in Radiology, MRI are not point and click lol. No way I could use one correctly, and I support them ICT, and no way I could report on the result. I'm not an expert, but maybe I should - free my mind, not be hypnotized by hundreds of years of scientific advancement. Go with the gut
apologies if the sarcasm was not clear
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@Winger said in NZR review:
And just for the (brain-dead) blue pill takers who can't, or refuse to, think for themselves. Not all experts are the same. So please don't give me shit like what about flying on planes. Or equally as bad but what about an MRI scan? Some experts are great. Some are bought and paid for, corrupt fools. But the brain-dead / innocent & child-like adults put both in the same category. And trust without thinking.
I guess the ones that are great are the ones you agree with?
And don't insult plumbers (on a previous post).
Literally no one did. Perhaps we've spotted the problem.
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@Winger said in NZR review:
@Dan54 said in NZR review:
but really what the hell do I or really any of us know to say it right or wrong.
My view is we have a brain for a reason. Why not use it? Then the best ideas will win. Not just the views, often with self-interest involved, with the most money or power.
THIS - I can agree with. Wholeheartedly.
It's a shame that the irony in it is fucking staggering. -
@Winger said in NZR review:
@Dan54 said in NZR review:
but really what the hell do I or really any of us know to say it right or wrong.
My view is we have a brain for a reason. Why not use it? Then the best ideas will win. Not just the views, often with self-interest involved, with the most money or power.
Oh precisely mate, I not saying we shouldn't think about it or express ideas, just saying I or most of us don't really know why decisions are or have to be made. And as you say we all have brain, and wasn't meaning I or any of us don't, just more thinking of complexities of running game etc behind scenes that affect decisions etc we probably don't have full grasp on.
Still enjoy seeing people's thoughts though.
And I really think the bit you took out of my post kind of proves point, in no way was it getting at people, but by taking part of a sentence it made it sound like something it wasn't. -
The big meeting is today.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350173165/nz-rugby-provinces-and-players-collision-course-over-reforms
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350174559/provincial-unions-reach-consensus-nzr-reform-plan
Change is one step closer for New Zealand Rugby after the 26 provincial unions “reached a consensus” on governance reforms that could shake up the organisation. -
