NZR review
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Gregor Paul: Rugby's on the brink of monumental change - but there's one problem
OPINION: The people who matter most to Rugby in NZ are being left in the dark.
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Quite impressed by Rob Nichol here.
“Just to be very clear, some of the most crucial aspects of the recommendations are that we end up with an independent board,” Nichol said. “To get an independent board, you need a robust and independent appointments panel to make those appointments. “And so the moment you change the makeup of that appointments panel to be made up of stakeholders, then you're compromising the independence of the process by which the board is getting elected.“ “The game is owned by the people of New Zealand,” Nichol said. “We owe it to the country and we owe it to the New Zealanders to get this right. “The experts have told us what right looks like, so it's really just about getting on and implementing those recommendations.” -
@antipodean said in NZR review:
They say that they believe the leadership is too focused on the elite level of the game
That's the crux of the problem right...bit of a chicken egg scenario.
Without our elite game, we don't get the $$$ to keep the grassroots strong, but on the other side, we absolutely need strong grassroots to continue to grow players to become elite...
They go hand in hand, but if you don't foster the grassroots, the other will naturally weaken.
Obviously another talking point lately is selection of off shore players, this will just speed the process of our grassroots being weaker.
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@Machpants said in NZR review:
Hopefully Robinson follows Hamish out the door, another bullshit talking toss pot
Gotta be honest don't mind Robertson, generally as a CEO he does as board wants which is exactly his job. He cops shit for making statements about NPC etc, but they aren't his opinion, but the board etc anyway, and get changed by posters etc on forums who perhaps read what they want. Not saying he is bee knees or anything, just he doesn't in my opinion seem to make bad decisions etc?
And taking inti account that I don't know exactly what he does in his role, and there maybe some on here who are quite a bit more knowlegdeable than me. -
@KiwiMurph No Board is independent and expertise is subjective. The bias of the independent Board will be determined by its makeup. If I was the Provincial Unions I would be all over this as well. This is power battle between interest groups.
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@KiwiMurph said in NZR review:
“The experts have told us what right looks like, so it's really just about getting on and implementing those recommendations.”
What an idiotic comment by someone who should have more sense.
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@Winger whats idiotic about it?
hes just saying they paid for some advice...and now they have to implement the advice
@taniwharugby said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
They say that they believe the leadership is too focused on the elite level of the game
They go hand in hand, but if you don't foster the grassroots, the other will naturally weaken.
more effort into getting people involved in local/club/npc would go a long way
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@Winger said in NZR review:
@KiwiMurph said in NZR review:
“The experts have told us what right looks like, so it's really just about getting on and implementing those recommendations.”
What an idiotic comment by someone who should have more sense.
Would you rather implement recommendations from people with no demonstrated knowledge or competence?
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@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Winger said in NZR review:
@KiwiMurph said in NZR review:
“The experts have told us what right looks like, so it's really just about getting on and implementing those recommendations.”
What an idiotic comment by someone who should have more sense.
Would you rather implement recommendations from people with no demonstrated knowledge or competence?
I've seen all sorts from org design consultants - some exceptional work, some horrific. You have to test it, not just roll over and implement it.
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@nzzp said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Winger said in NZR review:
@KiwiMurph said in NZR review:
“The experts have told us what right looks like, so it's really just about getting on and implementing those recommendations.”
What an idiotic comment by someone who should have more sense.
Would you rather implement recommendations from people with no demonstrated knowledge or competence?
I've seen all sorts from org design consultants - some exceptional work, some horrific. You have to test it, not just roll over and implement it.
I'm sure they've done their due diligence having received the report. Even if there are shit consultants (and there are), that doesn't support @Winger's default denunciation of anyone with recognised expertise.
This doesn't look like a organisational refresh for the sake of one. It's clear that the structure of rugby in New Zealand requires rethinking and a refresh to account for the fact what worked pre-professionalism is not fit for purpose now. No amount of hand wringing or misty eyed recollection of bygone eras counters that stark realism.
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@nzzp said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Winger said in NZR review:
@KiwiMurph said in NZR review:
“The experts have told us what right looks like, so it's really just about getting on and implementing those recommendations.”
What an idiotic comment by someone who should have more sense.
Would you rather implement recommendations from people with no demonstrated knowledge or competence?
I've seen all sorts from org design consultants - some exceptional work, some horrific. You have to test it, not just roll over and implement it.
there arent too many ways to FULLY test these things though other than giving it a go and closely evaluating
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@antipodean said in NZR review:
I'm sure they've done their due diligence having received the report. Even if there are shit consultants (and there are), that doesn't support @Winger's default denunciation of anyone with recognized expertise.
The West has been infected by a mind virus. Maybe due to religion (where it likely started). Where we have been collectively brainwashed to not think for ourselves. And instead, just trust the often bought and paid for (so-called) experts. Whether it's a religious leader or a science expert. Or a hired NZR 'expert'.
And I'm always cautious of anyone who advises to just trust the expert. It suggests their case is not very strong. Also it insulting to anyone who has a different viewpoint.
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@Winger this....is a hot take even for you
NZR are literally seeking advice....someone hasnt just written a paper on spec...and then NZR have decided to follow it
they are trying to have a custom solutions and so have sought advice from people who have more knowledge then they do
what would you have them do? go away and spend years studying for themselves so they become experts....without listening to anyone else to avoid joining a cult by mistake....and then implement a plan but only if its not something that anyone else would do
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@Winger said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
I'm sure they've done their due diligence having received the report. Even if there are shit consultants (and there are), that doesn't support @Winger's default denunciation of anyone with recognized expertise.
The West has been infected by a mind virus. Maybe due to religion (where it likely started). Where we have been collectively brainwashed to not think for ourselves. And instead, just trust the often bought and paid for (so-called) experts. Whether it's a religious leader or a science expert. Or a hired NZR 'expert'.
And I'm always cautious of anyone who advises to just trust the expert. It suggests their case is not very strong. Also it insulting to anyone who has a different viewpoint.
Yeah, I often listen to the plumber's opinion on an MRI
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@antipodean in fairness....i dont think thats what hes suggesting...more that you just work out how to operate (theyre point and click) and interpret the result from the MRI yourself rather than trusting a doctor or technician as they are inherently evil
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@Kiwiwomble well unfortunately I'm just not smart enough to learn everything and if I was, I don't think I'd have the time.
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The West has been infected by a mind virus. Maybe due to religion (where it likely started). Where many have been collectively brainwashed to not trust anybody claiming expertise. And instead, just trust the often nonsensical rantings of any random nutter. Whether it's a religious leader or a (self-claimed but...) unqualified science 'expert'. Or one's self (think for one's self, without knowledge - for the win!).
And I'm always cautious of anyone who refuses to listen to a qualified expert. It suggests they are a fucking idiot. Also, glad to insult anyone who has a different viewpoint.
(obviously - any "experts" need to be judged, according to qualifications, experience, results, etc... but refusing to believe anybody with an MD, for eg (in the correct fucking field) over and above some shit you saw on a youtube video... you're a fucking retard.)
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@Winger said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
I'm sure they've done their due diligence having received the report. Even if there are shit consultants (and there are), that doesn't support @Winger's default denunciation of anyone with recognized expertise.
The West has been infected by a mind virus. Maybe due to religion (where it likely started). Where we have been collectively brainwashed to not think for ourselves. And instead, just trust the often bought and paid for (so-called) experts. Whether it's a religious leader or a science expert. Or a hired NZR 'expert'.
And I'm always cautious of anyone who advises to just trust the expert. It suggests their case is not very strong. Also it insulting to anyone who has a different viewpoint.
Or:
Fuck I'm close to creating 10 dummy accounts to upvote this shitloads.
Magic.
Finger-tips to the lips, and... kissy-noise.
... chef's kiss. -
I not sure how much I like the recommendations made, but really what the hell do I or really any of us know to say it right or wrong. Apparently the provincial unions have sent a leeter to NZR saying they agree there needs to be change. I know we all rightfully have opinions, but do we know more about how rugby should be run than the people who are running the game now? And if so why aren't we doing job anyway.
I will say there are things I seem to not like but haven't seen all facrs etc. Like NPC , my favourite comp,bar none, they go along with NZR thinking there needs to be changes, I do suspect quite a few provincial boards think so to, it's getting agreement on how and what (I betting we will have less teams), but when it gets into public discussion , we the uninformed tend to jump on anything that means change . As I said personally I not keen on some of things I have seen in report, but that's me looking at it from my point of view and being at one stage on a provincial union board, and not liking the idea of any loss of say from them.
Stuff
