All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham
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Plenty of things can go wrong by agreeing to play our biggest nemesis as a warm up match. Or go right, if you get it right.... But we didn't get this one right
Still prone to brain snaps under pressure
Roigard probably best number two, but will sit behind the ginger unless injury occurs.
Hoping Lomax heals quickly from that nasty gash, wonder if he will be called hermy in camp?
Is the balance of the squad right? Still not sure.A timely reminder you're only as good as your last game and players need to keep their head in the game, just can they correct it in time?. We all know that they can, but we have also seen at times they tend to double down on stupid plays even when they know they shouldn't.
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That run in from the QF on is going to brutal for whoever emerges from our side of the draw. I hope the winner emerges too, I don't want to see another team coast through and lift the cup
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@bayimports said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Roigard probably best number two, but will sit behind the ginger unless injury occurs.
Even Foster isn't that dumb - is he?
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I think a lot has to do with what the referee focuses on early and we are caught out by starting with what works in super rugby when others play NH style with an NH ref.
The slowing down of the game and the cunning way the Boks played the ref meant that we hardly got a look in by trying super rugby tactics.I thought our defence under the constant pressure was very good indeed. Missing an easy penalty would have been a confidence drainer as would yielding intercepts to retreating players.
I wonder if Will Jordan could run closer to inside players to make it harder for defenders to disrupt our chain moves?Looks to me like squad balance is very wrong now. Telea is a lock in with his tackle breaking ability. And we may need a bench player who has strong clearing kicks much more than another power winger.
Far more need for another 6 or lock or both now. Unless we address this I can see France Boks and Ireland with a 6 2 bench against overpowering us.
Maybe we will have learned enough from this loss to make some radical changes needed for the challenges ahead. I hope so. -
@canefan which came down to the coaches. The had the opportunity to play the same squad from SA-Wobs-SA but didn't. They phucked around on the EOYT last year and almost lost to Japan and Scotland.
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RasNaber have created a nice to have problem with player depth in their squad. The new generation of players look like passing the 2019 WC group. Willemse vs Willie, KLA and Moodie vs Kolbey and Mapimpi, AE and Moodie/Kriel vs Am and Ellendig, Libbok vs Pollard, Faf vs Hendricks, Vermeulen vs Wiese, Kwagga vs PST, Etsebeth and Mostert vs Snyman and Kleyn, Malherbe vs Koch, Marx vs Bongi and Kitshoff vs Ox. Then they have third options who can make most country teams.
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@His-Bobness said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Gregor Paul has a go at over-zealous officiating.
Would you like some cheese with your whine Gregor?
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@MiketheSnow he has clicks to collect.
When does the RWC start? Man this thread is gonna take a thrashing!
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@Steve Great post.
Something went wrong with the side’s identity after McCaw, Carter, Nonu, Smith, Woodcock and Mealamu retired and we went all Disney in the off season of 2016-7. And they have struggled to recapture a hard nosed ruthless edge since.
PR photos from last week of them grinning like idiots on the Ted Lasso bench had me worrying about the mindset ahead of a physical struggle with the Boks.
We’ve become far too nice, something you would never have said about Sean Fitzpatrick, Buck Shelford and co.
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@His-Bobness For me the worry is that some of the officiating this weekend has been zealous, some of it has been laissez-faire.
Sides that can adapt from the start to different refereeing styles will be at a huge advantage in the RWC. South Africa are helped by having players in their squad who play in lots of different domestic competitions around the world and some of their squad have played club or provincial rugby in several countries.
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@Higgins said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
And he can't own up when his team puts what is objectively the worst performance ever in black
Utter fucking nonsense.
So a28 point loss isn't objectively the worst ever? Carry on in your dream world. He at no point in the interview admits anything but good learnings. Not 'we didn't prepare well enough' nor 'the tactics weren't quite right' doing shitty little kicks in our 22.Just we will learn. Except they don't and haven't over the last 6 odd years
Losing to Munster 12-0 in 78 is the worst ever…
No it's not, I well remember a real spanking against Sydney 17 - 40 at Penrith in 1992 that was the ultimate pits. That's the same year we had an unbeaten tour of Sth Africa!
That NSW side was basically the Wallabies other than about 3 players. And I think the margin was bigger than that!
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Clive Woodward in the Fail on Sunday says he’s never seen a side play as logically as the Boks on Friday night.
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@sparky well our teams play in the URC and HC. The first half a season of URC was a nightmare and all the teams was at the bottom. The URC plays a massive role in our players development. Not only our teams but also our players in the opposition like our Munster lock pair and Vermeulen.
Regarding Foster Mr nice guy, compare him to Rassie the guy everybody hates who can think out of the box.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Gregor Paul has a go at over-zealous officiating.
Would you like some cheese with your whine Gregor?
Yeah, those Sweaties can be whingy fucks eh?
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@OomPB No other country has players who play club/provincial Rugby so far and wide. It can make cohesion a problem for the Boks occasionally (not at all on Friday night), but boy does it give them lots and lots of Rugby smarts.
The All Blacks (especially the Barrett trio) looked like dumb, naive bunnies by comparison on the Twickenham Friday night turf.
Time for Foster’s men to wise up and smell the coffee and fast.
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@MiketheSnow Uncle Gregor has a point though, with the seemingly arbitrary use of replay. And it’s nicely written!
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Could be worse. At least we didn't lose to Fiji.
Had a chat with my rugby mad uncle last night and he made a good point: we would expect to destroy any side that had 13 men for a period, then 14 for half the game. Obviously there were other concerning elements but that part is definitely true.
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@game_film without a doubt it was pedantic, but we failed to adjust to both that and the Boks play, who managed to adapt much better.
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@OomPB said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@sparky well our teams play in the URC and HC. The first half a season of URC was a nightmare and all the teams was at the bottom. The URC plays a massive role in our players development. Not only our teams but also our players in the opposition like our Munster lock pair and Vermeulen.
Regarding Foster Mr nice guy, compare him to Rassie the guy everybody hates who can think out of the box.
It's fine to be a Mr Nice guy, but you have to be ruthless too and that's what Foster lacks. He's afraid to make the tough calls. He's also incredibly stubborn and rarely will change his mind on players and tactics. By all means have him as an assistant coach but no way is he a head coach.
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Some real dud selections in this squad. Williams and Newell are nowhere near ready for test rugby, Vaa'i has no physical impact, and Jacobson is a converted seven who is absolutely lost at test level. Then there is the thoroughly unathletic Lienert-Brown.
France will destroy that forward pack.
De Groot is back to slow and ponderous.
Ryan needs to open both eyes.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Higgins said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
And he can't own up when his team puts what is objectively the worst performance ever in black
Utter fucking nonsense.
So a28 point loss isn't objectively the worst ever? Carry on in your dream world. He at no point in the interview admits anything but good learnings. Not 'we didn't prepare well enough' nor 'the tactics weren't quite right' doing shitty little kicks in our 22.Just we will learn. Except they don't and haven't over the last 6 odd years
Losing to Munster 12-0 in 78 is the worst ever…
No it's not, I well remember a real spanking against Sydney 17 - 40 at Penrith in 1992 that was the ultimate pits. That's the same year we had an unbeaten tour of Sth Africa!
That NSW side was basically the Wallabies other than about 3 players. And I think the margin was bigger than that!
NSW got smoked 41 - 09 earlier in the tour so their almost Wallabies lineup did not do them much good. Not so much trouble for the Sydney outfit that played the ABs mid week between the second and third tests who would not have had any of the Wallabies squad members turning out for them that night which makes the hiding copped even worse.
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Pretty sure we played our dirt trackers against Sydney.
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Rancid Schnitzelreplied to akan004 on 27 Aug 2023, 07:35 last edited by Rancid Schnitzel 27 Aug 2023, 07:40
@akan004 said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Pretty sure we played our dirt trackers against Sydney.
Yep.
Terry Wright, Eric Rush, Marc Ellis, Matthew Cooper, Eroni Clarke, Stephen Bachop, Jon Preston, Pat Lam, Dallas Seymour, Andy Earl, Mark Cooksley, Blair Larsen, Graham Purvis, Graham Dowd and Steve McDowall
That was still a very strong Sydney team. Simon Poidevin was captain.
Hartill
M. Bell
A. Blades
T. Kava (C)
W. W. Waugh
M. C. Brial
S. Poidevin
B. T. Gavin
A. Ekert (Payne)
T. Wallace
P. Jorgensen
L. F. Walker
R. C. Tombs
D. K. Junee
T. P. KelaherI think most had played or went on to play for Aus.
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Watching the Breakdown. Jeff Wilson is spot on re Scott Barrett. Cleanout to shoulder. Lots of other clean outs similar. Should not have been a yellow.
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@Tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Some real dud selections in this squad. Williams and Newell are nowhere near ready for test rugby, Vaa'i has no physical impact, and Jacobson is a converted seven who is absolutely lost at test level. Then there is the thoroughly unathletic Lienert-Brown.
France will destroy that forward pack.
De Groot is back to slow and ponderous.
Ryan needs to open both eyes.
Seeing him trying to beat someone on the outside late in the game was just embarrassing.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Some real dud selections in this squad. Williams and Newell are nowhere near ready for test rugby, Vaa'i has no physical impact, and Jacobson is a converted seven who is absolutely lost at test level. Then there is the thoroughly unathletic Lienert-Brown.
France will destroy that forward pack.
De Groot is back to slow and ponderous.
Ryan needs to open both eyes.
Seeing him trying to beat someone on the outside late in the game was just embarrassing.
To think many thought Goodhew and ALB were going to anchor the AB midfield years back
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@kev said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Watching the Breakdown. Jeff Wilson is spot on re Scott Barrett. Cleanout to shoulder. Lots of other clean outs similar. Should not have been a yellow.
Absolute nonsense
He came from distance at speed and hit a player that was not affecting the outcome of the ruck and who was unsighted and unable to defend himself
Scooter’s clean out had no influence on the outcome of that breakdown
On the clumsy to filth scale where clumsy is 1 and filth is 10 this rates between 6 and 7 for me and deservedly merited a YC
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a few players who are staying for 2024 are not gong to make the AB's next year.
ALB,B Barret,Clarke,Cane,Vaai,Newell,Ofa,Jacobson,Christie, are all in danger IMO.
Williams I think will stay he has some upsides. Size and can play both sides of the scrum.
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@Chris said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
a few players who are staying for 2024 are not gong to make the AB's next year.
ALB,B Barret,Clarke,Cane,Vaai,Newell,Ofa,Jacobson,Christie, are all in danger IMO.
Williams I think will stay he has some upsides. Size and can play both sides of the scrum.
This RWC is their big chance at a last hurrah then. It's gonna be tough
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@game_film said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@MiketheSnow Uncle Gregor has a point though, with the seemingly arbitrary use of replay. And it’s nicely written!
“It became impossible to tell and it would be interesting to know how many TV viewers began scanning their phones 20 minutes into the match at Twickenham – half watching the game, half scrolling Instagram in the hope it might provide the entertainment that the rugby couldn’t”
Anyone who was doing that was obviously not in charge of the remote and didn’t want to watch the match in the first place
What tripe
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@MiketheSnow Did you watch the show? They showed two clean outs to the heads of All Blacks. Scott’s was to the right of the ball, and yes worthy of a penalty, but not to head. Your dirt rating assumes intent which is just speculation.
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Rugby is a fast aggressive confrontational game. It's going to be very easy to go down a player or two the way the game is being ruled right now
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@Tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Some real dud selections in this squad. Williams and Newell are nowhere near ready for test rugby, Vaa'i has no physical impact, and Jacobson is a converted seven who is absolutely lost at test level. Then there is the thoroughly unathletic Lienert-Brown.
France will destroy that forward pack.
De Groot is back to slow and ponderous.
Ryan needs to open both eyes.
Call me hindsight Harry, but I wanted to post something fairly similar when I saw the bench.
It was made worse by the fact that Bok 23 was named well in advance. Nche is probably the Bok's best scrummaging LH, and same can be said for Nbonambi at hooker. And Nyakane their no. 2 TH. With serious power in second row.
Both Vaa'i and Lord are LH locks, so it ought to have been clear second half scrums were going to be a BIG challenge.
So Nepo and Ofa ought to have been a given.
Likewise, Finau would have been closest LFL swap for Frizell.
Of course, that's assuming to win the Qatar Cup was the priority.
Obviously not. At the cost of the Baby Blacks getting a spanking in second half, TWM have learned some pretty important lessons for French game, one being that the mobile, looser, forwards which prosper in Super get found out against the top level in the tight.
The biggest issue is the injury squeeze with BBBR and Frizell, as that leaves us without a heavy duty 6.
To paraphrase the Matrix, 'Tell me, Mr. Foster, what good is a gamebreaking winger, if you're unable to secure any pill?'.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
He came from distance at speed and hit a player that was not affecting the outcome of the ruck and who was unsighted and unable to defend himself
Scooter’s clean out had no influence on the outcome of that breakdown
None of that is illegal.
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@pakman Lineouts too. You're generally going to struggle going into a match with four opensized flankers. Reminds me of the JC, RM, RS (which as a unit was far superior to what we have now) days when the AB's lineout was often second best.
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@Tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Some real dud selections in this squad. Williams and Newell are nowhere near ready for test rugby, Vaa'i has no physical impact, and Jacobson is a converted seven who is absolutely lost at test level. Then there is the thoroughly unathletic Lienert-Brown.
France will destroy that forward pack.
De Groot is back to slow and ponderous.
Ryan needs to open both eyes.
At least papalii is there to lead the resistance
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
He came from distance at speed and hit a player that was not affecting the outcome of the ruck and who was unsighted and unable to defend himself
Scooter’s clean out had no influence on the outcome of that breakdown
None of that is illegal.
Will be interesting to see if the yellow is rescinded if there was no illegal contact.
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
He came from distance at speed and hit a player that was not affecting the outcome of the ruck and who was unsighted and unable to defend himself
Scooter’s clean out had no influence on the outcome of that breakdown
None of that is illegal.
No attempt to bind
Off feetYes I know it goes on at nearly every ruck but it's still against the laws
Already on a YC and right in front of the ref is some real dumb shit
So I'll change my view to 3 on the clumsy / dumb side of the scale
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@kev said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@MiketheSnow Did you watch the show? They showed two clean outs to the heads of All Blacks. Scott’s was to the right of the ball, and yes worthy of a penalty, but not to head. Your dirt rating assumes intent which is just speculation.
See the previous reply
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