All Blacks 2023
-
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.
Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.
I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?
The above is a brilliant post and remains my biggest fear for the ABs in World Cup year. Getting reamed at the breakdown in a big game.
-
@sparky said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.
Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.
I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?
The above is a brilliant post and remains my biggest fear for the ABs in World Cup year. Getting reamed at the breakdown in a big game.
Ardie played that disrupting role versus the boks, he was an utter pest. And almost got his head ripped off on several occasions for it. He wasn't his normal energiser bunny role, if you do a watch you'll see he made a big difference to how slow their ball was
-
@sparky Had one in Boshier, he got nothing from the selectors and left. There's a danger in selectors deciding the ABs are going to play one way and that's it for those who don't fit that style.
Also a weird contrast vs how they e.g. pick Christie on the bench for Smith, which changes the whole way the team can play - but they don't seem to think that's a big deal. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2023:
There's a danger in selectors deciding the ABs are going to play one way and that's it for those who don't fit that style.
You mean, selectors picking players to suit their team, plan and style? I'd be interested in countries that don't have this issue.
-
@Bones Yeah that's fair - they need to pick players to play the style they want, but it ought to be open to some questioning when that style looks a bit shit, and keeping the options open for a horses for courses approach if possible when you have one guy in the country who is clearly head and shoulders above anyone else in a specific role isn't a bad idea.
Also begs the question about what appears to be completely different thinking on the Smith/Christie combination though. Those two guys play a completely different game, and how they play has a major impact on how the whole team plays. If they are saying 'our 7 must play this style', then why not say 'our 9 must play this style' when it has more bearing on the team as a whole? -
Starting TO wonder about the halfback conundrum... is it possible that Foster potentially saw TJ as his number three, and wanted the contingency option of Weber or Fakatava? Perhaps they wanted to have a proper look at both of them, hence sent them to NZ XV as opposed to having them run waters. Personally think we'd be insane to take Roigard to the World Cup in a position like halfback off the back of MAX two bench appearances (by the time the squad is named) and one good season of Super Rugby.
-
@frugby not sure your logic stacks up re Weber & Fakatava when you consider they took Stevenson & Roigard to hold tackle bags.
I think they learn different things from having them train in the main squad vs playing in a tier or 2 down, and doubt they learnt much from Weber & FF that they didnt already know.
-
@frugby wait so you think it's insane to take Roigard, and then you suggest one of the contingency options is Fakatava... hmmm. Roigard has the accuracy you want in a halfback at a WC, Fakatava is way too unpredictable at this stage of his career.
-
New Zealand’s Strategy to Shock the World in 2023
New Zealand will enter the 2023 World Cup in an unfamiliar position. At every edition of the World Cup since 2007 the Kiwis have been world number 1. This time however they will be underdogs in Fra…
-
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby not sure your logic stacks up re Weber & Fakatava when you consider they took Stevenson & Roigard to hold tackle bags.
I think they learn different things from having them train in the main squad vs playing in a tier or 2 down, and doubt they learnt much from Weber & FF that they didnt already know.
Horses for courses - and for what it is worth, I think it is unlikely... but to me, if they wanted to take Roigard, he had to play one of the first two games.
-
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby wait so you think it's insane to take Roigard, and then you suggest one of the contingency options is Fakatava... hmmm. Roigard has the accuracy you want in a halfback at a WC, Fakatava is way too unpredictable at this stage of his career.
Roigard is also still very raw, and is 100% still learning his game. Fakatava has been around for 5-6 seasons, and had he had more luck with injuries, would probably have double-digit test appearances, and would be undisputably in the squad. Experience is everything, and Roigard doesn't have any of it outside this season.
Had they gone and chucked him straight in, I'd have been fine with it, but just because of top level playing time alone, I'd be far more confident in Fakatava than Roigard if Smith went down in a heap in G1... that said, this would have been how I'd rank the halfbacks.
- Smith
- Weber
- Fakatava
- Roigard
- Christie
-
@frugby playing style alone I would still take Roigard over Fakatava, Christie and Weber. He's less experienced in terms of international footy, yes, but the way he plays is tailor made for test match rugby. He has a calm head on his shoulders, he's got a very accurate kicking game, his pass isn't slow, and he's a point of difference to all the other halfbacks because of his size. Fakatava is still way too unpredictable, and I wouldn't trust him to close out a WC finals match if he had to. Weber and Christie are just a bit meh for me but I guess it's all matter of opinion.
Stats show Roigard was by far and away the best halfback in NZ during Super and I don't think he's the sort of player that will be overawed by the big stage. Hopefully he gets some game time over the next two tests to show what he's made of because I'd rather have our best players at the WC, than guys being picked because they have more experience so to speak.
-
@Canes4life No denying Roigard is great, but I'm not sure Fakatava's unpredictability is necessarily a criticism.
IMO, Smith should and will play the full 80 of knockout matches at the World Cup if they are close. The guy's fitness levels are top-notch, but if we are losing and looking for spark, Fakatava is that guy. Not to say Roigard doesn't have X-Factor, because those two will be a heck of a 1-2 punch post WC, but he hasn't got miles on the clock yet... that said, for me it is anyone over Christie, and I'd be happy to take Fakatava and Roigard, but was more so saying, if they wanted to take the latter, feel like he needed to give him as much game time in the lead up as possible.
-
@sparky said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.
Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.
I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?
The above is a brilliant post and remains my biggest fear for the ABs in World Cup year. Getting reamed at the breakdown in a big game.
I think Cane is a best breakdown man we got, it was no coincidence the Boks started doing better after he went off. He is still one of few players who can slow opposition ball too.
-
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Canes4life No denying Roigard is great, but I'm not sure Fakatava's unpredictability is necessarily a criticism.
IMO, Smith should and will play the full 80 of knockout matches at the World Cup if they are close. The guy's fitness levels are top-notch, but if we are losing and looking for spark, Fakatava is that guy. Not to say Roigard doesn't have X-Factor, because those two will be a heck of a 1-2 punch post WC, but he hasn't got miles on the clock yet... that said, for me it is anyone over Christie, and I'd be happy to take Fakatava and Roigard, but was more so saying, if they wanted to take the latter, feel like he needed to give him as much game time in the lead up as possible.
Mate you lose a lot of reason when you say anyone over Christie. Shows a bias against him. I not his greatest fan, but I getting feeling they like his defence.Keen on seeing Roigard have a crack, but not sure how things are looking at training.
-
