All Blacks vs Wales
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@Billy-Tell i mean....what theyve tweeted is true, even linked the reporting....
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Catogrande said in All Blacks vs Wales:
There is a valid counter argument that they have been through the justice system, tried and found either guilty or innocent and that should be that and to be honest I find it difficult to disagree with that. The dig, I think, was more about the hypocrisy of the "Better people make better All Blacks" thing. If you're going to talk the talk, don't be surprised on getting called out if you're not walking the walk.
This has been called out by a fair few Kiwis on here in the past.
Oh yeah I'm not saying they should go to jail or anything, though Frizell got away with his one with almost no consequences at all. I'd have thought he could have at least jeopardised his AB career but no apparently despite smacking a woman over, he's not a "dick head". But yeah from a legal perspective, fair play, but I'll be fully supportive of anyone wanting to give them shit about it as well. That tweet was funny as hell.
And to be fair, can people not become better people. So if someone is bad they bad all their lives huh? Intersting world we getting to live in?
Part of how people can become better people is if they suffer consequences for their actions. Frizzel assaulted two people, one a woman, then basically sent threatening messages to them. The attack on the man was especially cowardly (punch from behind).
I can't imagine the victims feel like he endured any consequences for these actions at all.
Considering how average Frizzell has been at Test level, mediocre even, I'm not sure the All Black brand/reputation is worth his selection. Plenty of options in his position; Barrett, AI, Dalton, Grace, MMT (you could go on). Instead the message to the rest of the squad is even if you get caught with this sort of awful behaviour, we have your back!
Bring back Graham Henry IMO.
I not suggesting anyone should get let off, how many women (and men) are assaulted evry week in our country, or elsewhere for that matter. Now tell me how many of these same jokers are getting the same amount of shit everyday of their lives. I remember over in Aus a few years back when a top law stundent ( and a son of a judge) king hit someone who ended up in hospital and very ill, he got no guilt by a judge and was hounded for quite sometime, and they do suffer consequences.. Then the question was asked by a lawyer, do people realise how often it happens, and unless the person is prominent in some way that is usually the end. I in now way defending Frizzell or anyone who commits assault on anyone (male or female) in any form, but I wonder how many who are vocal online etc actually check how many people they know who have done similar etc. See I don't find difference in assault on male,or female, etc. I also hope that a good number who have been given a chance make most of it and learn.
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@Dan54 I don’t understand your point. You use an example of another person with a privileged circumstance getting off to prove that other people get off unfairly?
If people, regardless of circumstances, are routinely getting off assault charges as well, then we have an even bigger problem. As all that teaches people is you can assault who you like.
Can we at least agree that getting rushed back into the All Blacks as soon as they were able to taught the thug nothing?
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Dan54 I don’t understand your point. You use an example of another person with a privileged circumstance getting off to prove that other people get off unfairly?
If people, regardless of circumstances, are routinely getting off assault charges as well, then we have an even bigger problem. As all that teaches people is you can assault who you like.
Can we at least agree that getting rushed back into the All Blacks as soon as they were able to taught the thug nothing?
Mate the point I trying to make is he hasn't got off scott free as was said in some posts, and generally people who are actually well known are getting punishment at times because of press etc, and them getting ripped to pieces (and maybe rightly) in both press and forums etc, what I am saying how do you we know who gets of lighter than others, unless we actually find out the story on all cases. There is every chance there are people who I (and maybe you and others know) who have done similar or indeed worth, but because they noy sportsman or well known they haven't been in press etc and we don't know about it.. It's not defending anyone, just saying perhaps one of the reasons that judges do actually give seemingly lenient sentences, because they consider how much punishment it is too cop shit for a long time in public etc. I not saying I agree, but that was explained to me by a mate who was a lawyer in Aus when discussing a personality who got what we thought was a light sentence. He said judges will almost always consider if it will impact on the offenders ability to actually improve including even travelling overseas etc in their profession. Most (I would bet I right) people that commited a similar offence to Frizzell would of received a fine and probably community work (was his first offence I believe) then carried on with their lives without it being brought up in papers or on the net every other week. So tell me who we think is getting off scott free? As I say I not defending him or anyone, but do we say if you commit assault there is no coming back?
If you can show me enough cases where lesser known people have got much heavier sentences for regularly , you have a point, but I think it is actually a lot more common than we think.FFS we have has people rightfully protesting because some young bugger raped a few young girls and got home detention for 6 months, and he's not or wasn't famous
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wales:
make is he hasn't got off scott free as was said in some posts
He got as close to getting off scott free as anyone possibly can. His charges were dropped because he was offered diversion.
I'm really unsure how the Police decided this case met the following criteria for diversion:
"Do not minimise violence suffered by the victim. The circumstances of the offending and the victim's views are most important in considering violent offences for diversion."I guess the police also didn't charge him with the threats he made as that would have then been an aggravating factor which should also have ruled him out of receiving diversion.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Can we at least agree that getting rushed back into the All Blacks as soon as they were able to taught the thug nothing?
He was back in the squad in July last year after the incident happened in May. Wild, honestly.
And while his performance against the Boks this year was actually good he was clearly playing above himself. He can't sustain that level. It really calls into question what the purpose of him is if he's only achieving a pass mark at best.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wales:
make is he hasn't got off scott free as was said in some posts
He got as close to getting off scott free as anyone possibly can. His charges were dropped because he was offered diversion.
I'm really unsure how the Police decided this case met the following criteria for diversion:
"Do not minimise violence suffered by the victim. The circumstances of the offending and the victim's views are most important in considering violent offences for diversion."I guess the police also didn't charge him with the threats he made as that would have then been an aggravating factor which should also have ruled him out of receiving diversion.
Yep mate, you misunderstood my saying he hasn't got off scot free. I was simply meaning his reputation is thrashed, and still is by people on the net and many many others are just going on without anyone (and probably a lot of friends) knowing.
It's the same as things like the me too movement, the only people being outed are stars etc, while really it makes absolutely no difference to the Joe Blogg who is/are doing a lot worse! Not defending anyone just pointing out the difference and hypcrocary of a lot of this shit. As I said in post, some young mongrel got home detention for multiple rapes just a few months ago, do you remember his name etc? I certainly don't, and I imagine he will not be villified as someone who is well known and has done lesser things. Mind you this is probably wrong thread for me to say how pissed I get at the double standards a lot seem to. -
Apparently we have a new JC....???
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@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Apparently we have a new JC....???
Akira Ioane fans are going to choke on their morning coffees reading this
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@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Apparently we have a new JC....???
Akira Ioane fans are going to choke on their morning coffees reading this
Just more proof about how dumb Dagg is really.
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To be fair to Dagg, he doesn't really say Friz is the a "modern-day JK" at all.
He says "“Shannon at six, he is a must,” Dagg told SENZ Mornings.
“We’ve been looking for (and saying), ‘Who’s going to be that Jerome Kaino that comes in and adds that real oomph at the six position,’ and he is our guy.
“He does all the hard work, he carries extremely well, he defends really (well and) he’s another lineout option; he’s a big man so he’s a genuine lineout option there for Sammy Whitelock and Scotty Barrett.”
It's not a completely outrageous comment.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
To be fair to Dagg, he doesn't really say Friz is the a "modern-day JK" at all.
He says "“Shannon at six, he is a must,” Dagg told SENZ Mornings.
“We’ve been looking for (and saying), ‘Who’s going to be that Jerome Kaino that comes in and adds that real oomph at the six position,’ and he is our guy.
“He does all the hard work, he carries extremely well, he defends really (well and) he’s another lineout option; he’s a big man so he’s a genuine lineout option there for Sammy Whitelock and Scotty Barrett.”
It's not a completely outrageous comment.
Wow, a headline that doesn’t actually match what is in a quote. Surely not.
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He's still dead wrong on all counts
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Do we have the match stats available?
It didn't feel, watching live, that his workrate was particularly outstanding. And it wasn't like he was significantly bending the line with or without the ball, either.
So not sure what Dagg is talking about.
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@Frye said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Do we have the match stats available?
Forget stats, that’s so early 2000s and Eddie Jonesy. It’s just about the vibe now and how many internet forum supporters you have (or don’t have).
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
He's still dead wrong on all counts
Well, he's not really is he?
Let's break it down:
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We’ve been looking for [someone to] come in and adds that real oomph at the six position,’ - not sure he adds oomph, but he is certainly a tight power 6 rather than an athletic one
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“He does all the hard work" - true
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"he carries extremely well" - well he carries straight and hard at least, and he does so repeatedly
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"he defends really well" - I agree with this
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"he’s another lineout option" - I agree with this too
He's hardly the 2nd coming of JK, but he has been solid and is a good foil for Savea who plays a looser 8 role than others might
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Frye said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Do we have the match stats available?
Forget stats, that’s so early 2000s and Eddie Jonesy. It’s just about the vibe now and how many internet forum supporters you have (or don’t have).
Dagg must have had too many Tui's for breakfast before tuning in.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
He's still dead wrong on all counts
Well, he's not really is he?
Let's break it down:
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We’ve been looking for [someone to] come in and adds that real oomph at the six position,’ - not sure he adds oomph, but he is certainly a tight power 6 rather than an athletic one
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“He does all the hard work" - true
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"he carries extremely well" - well he carries straight and hard at least, and he does so repeatedly
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"he defends really well" - I agree with this
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"he’s another lineout option" - I agree with this too
He's hardly the 2nd coming of JK, but he has been solid and is a good foil for Savea who plays a looser 8 role than others might
Probably would have created less of a stir on the Fern if he's not mentioned the great man's name in the same sentence as Frizell
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Dagg on the All Blacks’ modern-day Jerome Kaino and loose trio dominance
